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Revelation Within On the Go!
Revelation Within equips people with life-giving, grace-infused mind renewal tools to deepen their intimacy with Jesus so that counterfeit comforts (like overeating) lose their allure, and the joy and hope of Jesus fills their lives, satisfying their souls.
In our podcast we talk about mind renewal, tips and tricks for getting and staying free from counterfeit comforts like overeating (over-scrolling, over-drinking, over-anythinging...)
We began as Thin Within in 1975, a pioneer in intuitive, mindful eating back when diets were in their hey day! Thin Within has taught people how to tune in to their body's natural signals of hunger and satisfaction, remaining present with their meals and delighting in tastes and textures--and the Lord!
In the 1980s, Thin Within became a Christian ministry, showing people that the emptiness that they have felt and often filled with food that their bodies don't require, was really placed in there to be filled full with God through Jesus. He wants to set us free from all strongholds!
We rebranded our ministry and our podcast in 2023 to Revelation Within.
Join us!
Visit us in our RevWithin.Team community as well! (https://revwithin.team)
Find our listing of classes at https://www.revelationwithin.org
Revelation Within On the Go!
Resilient Redemption: Michael Epperson's Story of Faith and Recovery
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
When trauma and addiction weigh us down, finding a path to redemption can seem impossible. In our latest chat with Heidi's husband, Michael Epperson, a functional nutrition coach and leader of the Resilient Redemption ministry, he helps us navigate these challenges. Michael openly shares his own story, blending his experiences with the hope that comes from faith and resilience.
We explore how our past traumas affect our present selves, focusing on the importance of our identity in Christ and renewing our minds. Michael's journey shows how being present in our relationships and believing in God's plan can untangle the pain and confusion we often feel. It's a deep dive into the healing process, highlighting how self-awareness can guide us to peace and self-acceptance.
Learn more about our Revelation Within Community: https://www.revelationwithin.org
Resilient Redemption
Speaker 1Hi , welcome to our podcast Revelation Within On the Go .
Speaker 2I'm Heidi Biles-Maepperson , one of your hosts and the owner and lead coach of the Revelation Within ministry and I'm Christina Motley , your other host , also a Revelation Within coach and Heidi's partner in all things Revelation Within . We are so happy to invite you to join us for this episode of Revelation Within on the go .
Speaker 1Well , this is a very , very , very , very , very special edition . Yes , it is my pleasure today to introduce to you all my husband , michael Epperson . We're so glad to're here , michael , yes .
Speaker 3Thank you .
Speaker 1Michael is a functional nutrition coach . He's certified with the Institute for the Psychology of Eating as a mind-body eating coach and he has studied the way trauma can impact our lives . He leads a ministry called Resilient Redemption . Hi , Michael , and welcome to the Revelation Within podcast . Welcome , welcome .
Speaker 3Thank you and thanks for letting me be on here with you too .
Speaker 1Well , Michael , tell us about Resilient Redemption .
Speaker 3Well , I decided to start Resilient Redemption because I think that trauma impacts all our lives in one way or another , and what Heidi and Christina do with Revelation Within is awesome and , in fact , a lot of resources that is going to be offered through resilient redemption are actually going to be Revelation Within resources , because they've done all the work already .
Speaker 2Oh , that sounds exciting .
Speaker 3Yeah . So I think there's three areas that people kind of need to work on as they're working through the trauma , and that's discovery , rewire or renew the mind , and reclaiming and becoming more resilient in your life . And I am just going to read an online definition of what complex and developmental trauma is . Complex trauma involves exposure to multiple trauma events over time , often in interpersonal relationships , and can lead to long-term physiological and emotional difficulties . Developmental trauma occurs during critical periods of childhood development and can disrupt the formation of secure attachments and emotional regulation skills , impacting various aspects of functioning throughout life .
Speaker 3And when I read those definitions , I think of how , throughout my life , those things that I didn't realize were from my past or me growing up really affected the way that I interact with the world .
Speaker 3Heidi and I used to have this guy that we would see . He was a marriage coach , but he also became kind of more of a friend and kind of a mentor , and one of the expressions he would use is spiritual cancer . About six months ago I was diagnosed with prostate cancer and it wasn't until that time that I really thought about cancer and how cancer really affects us . Science says that most of us actually could develop cancer during our lives . But in most cases our immune system has the ability to fight those cells and so cancer never forms . But in a case like mine that actually was diagnosed with cancer was because those cancer cells had the ability to grow and to affect my life in a certain way . And to me that's similar to how trauma can affect the way that we interact with the world , because if I didn't know that I was sick , that cancer would continue to grow and and impact my health and just my quality of life in a different way .
Speaker 2Yeah .
Speaker 3I think it's the same thing when it comes to trauma . When I was really young , I had a lot of anger issues . I was 23 or thereabouts . I had actually gone to a counselor and he was kind of addressing these anger issues and and I realized they were because of my past , because the way that my dad treated me and and my parents actually treated me and and I had the ability to try to change those things .
Speaker 3But it wasn't until , I think , about the time or after I met Heidi that that I realized that there was other things I needed to work on also , and as I worked through the psychology of eating and then studied more about trauma and went through these different courses about how trauma can physically affect us , with the biology of trauma and those sorts of things , I realized how much trauma can really affect us and the way that I interpret it .
Speaker 3There are times to have healthy negative reactions and then there are other times when we have negative reactions that probably aren't appropriate and so if somebody does something or says something or a situation happens , I can either like I have this anger come up or , in some cases , like I might pull away . I'm just like all right , I'm just leaving this situation because you know I don't feel good or whatever , which is a bad word to say . But anyway , I think those are good examples of trauma and how , because of our past , trauma has affected my present , and so when I can recognize those , then I can kind of start moving forward .
Speaker 2I love that you have a passion to help people with something that you've struggled with yourself . Can we go back to the title of your ministry Resilient Redemption . Why did you choose resilient ? What does that mean to you and why did you choose redemption ? I'd love to hear what that means to you , to your heart .
Speaker 3Sure , I think the key or the point of our healing journey isn't to overcome and to say that trauma never happened to me , because we can go through life and there will still be things that come up that affect me , that have a reaction that I react to . But when I have the ability to do the healing and to give forgiveness and to be able to resolve those experiences of trauma that I had , I build resilience to those things experiences of trauma that I had . I build resilience to those things . So if , like interacting with my mom which is a great example because we live with her and we're here trying to take care of her and the way that she acts now is really close to the way that I grew up and the longer we've been here , there's actually more healing that has happened with me and through me , because I realized that the way she responds to me and the way she acts to me or towards me , or even towards Heidi , is really her operating out of her own hurt , places right , her own experiences and her own trauma , and it really has less to do with me .
Speaker 3And so becoming resilient , like I said , isn't saying denying that any of that stuff ever happened , but being able to develop the tools and abilities to be able to not allow it to affect me in the way that it did Because , like even when we first moved here , which was like just about two years ago , I reacted in a really bad way and and that to me it just shows my path of healing , of us being here and the way that I have the ability to respond to her now . So to me , that's the resilience part is how do I act towards those triggering events that once captured me or held me in bondage before , and being able to walk more in a place of present and a place of being healthy emotionally , physically and spiritually healthy in this period , and even though that has the ability to affect me , I don't have to . I get to choose to not allow it to affect me today .
Speaker 2Okay , awesome .
Speaker 3And then redemption is just about God redeeming what the devil tried to break down , what he tried to steal . God made us for a purpose . He made us for a reason . He made us to be here on the planet to be an example of who he is . The devil wants nothing more than to tear that down and destroy that and not allow us to walk into that person that God created us to be .
Speaker 2Yes , wow , thank you so much for that , michael . Okay , so I love this idea of healthy , negative reactions versus unhealthy . So , in the example with your mom , for example and I'm sure that our listeners like , we're all thinking of somebody in our lives that it's tough , it's difficult , somebody in our lives that it's tough , it's difficult , it's challenging we're trying to figure out kind of how to navigate a difficult relationship . What does it look like to respond in a way that's unhealthy , you know , emotionally , and what does it look like in a healthy way ? Can you kind of give us an example of each ?
Speaker 3I guess a good example would be like when my brother came to visit right and how he reverted back to being this son of my mother and he acted like he was 10 or something . And I'm just like , dude , what are you doing ? And to me it's like I mean , steve , our friend had even kind of warned us about that and I think probably called me out on it a
Renewing Your Mind in Christ
Speaker 3little bit . When we first moved here we were interacting more with my mom of how we can revert back to this person that we used to be , because that's the way we think we should be . But for me to be a man , an adult , dealing with my adult mother , I need to be present . I can't be responding to her as that eight-year-old child who she thinks she can just boss around and act a certain way towards , and I think that's probably a good example .
Speaker 3Because we need to be present , we need to interact with what's going on , be conscious of the situation and there could be flashes or things that , like Heidi was saying , bungees , that kind of pull us back or remind us of other situations or even other people or things of our past .
Speaker 3But choosing to be present in this situation because in most cases and I know it's not always true we're probably safer now than we were then and , as being adults , we have the ability to choose to be safe right or choose to say I am safe in this moment , just like the way my mom might interact towards me . I don't have to allow those words to affect me , not that in any way I'm dishonoring her , but I don't have to allow myself to feel those things I used to feel like , you know , because for a lot of years I didn't feel that my parents were proud of me or that they loved me or that they thought I was intelligent in any way , shape or form . You know , stupid and idiot flew around our house a lot , but that isn't who I am . That isn't who God created me to be and it's not the brain that he gave me to be . And I think the more that we know who we are in Christ , the less we are that image that people said that we are as we were growing up .
Speaker 2Well , you know , at Revelation Within we talk so much about the renewing of the mind and , michael , I think you just gave us a beautiful example of mind renewal . You said , for example I am safe in this moment . I can choose . God is here with me . I can choose to be present . I'm an adult , my mom's an adult . And then , of course , that ever , ever , ever important topic of who am I in Christ ? That's who I am for sure Every day . It doesn't change Again another powerful way to renew your mind with who you are in Christ . So I love that you're bringing that into it .
Speaker 3Of course I mean to me . That's the only way of healing . There's no true healing can happen outside of Christ . But there's that verse that says that Jesus is the author and finisher of our faith and so , no matter what anybody else tries to do with self-help and other spiritual practices , you know our faith and our ability to heal will never truly happen if Christ is not part of that scenario .
Speaker 2Yes , Can I ask you about your relationship with Christ ? When did you come to know him ? And you know , tell us a little bit about that . I would love to hear . Okay , and you know , tell us a little bit about that .
Speaker 3I would love to hear . Okay , well , I was raised in the Seventh-day Adventist church and went to Seventh-day Adventist schools and all that kind of stuff and throughout my life . So I've always had a relationship with God and throughout my life there's times I've kind of walked further away and drew closer back . And when I had , I ran a wholesale bakery in Northern California for a long time and I always said that it was God's bakery . And when that ended , that was a really hard thing for me . And then , meeting my wife Heidi , I really think that God was calling me back to him in such a way that he brought a godly woman into my life to help me walk that path and for us to be able to walk that path together .
Speaker 2And so my relationship with God now is stronger than it's been any other time in my life . Wow , that's awesome . What does that look like for you , Michael ? Maybe for someone who's listening and is wondering what does it look like to have a strong relationship with the Lord ? What does that look like in your life ?
Speaker 3Well , I think just being able to well being in the word obviously is important , but also listening to what the word is telling you .
Speaker 3You know I mean there's so many people that talk about that that the Bible is a is living , and for me that's true . In my life , I mean , there's a lot of times and I think a lot of it probably has to do with all the work I've done towards trauma and those sorts of things that there's so many passages I can read in the Bible that to me that was God building in , knowing that these traumatic events were going to happen in our life . And he gives us the ability to look through all these scriptures and to see him in each of those trauma events . And to me that's just even more powerful , even more me wanting to be more involved with that and to see how God has , from the beginning of time , he cared for us and he cared for the way that this sinful world is going to affect his children and to help us to lead us back to healing and a healthy relationship with him .
Speaker 2That's beautiful . Thank you , Michael , for sharing that .
Speaker 3Yeah .
Overcoming Past Trauma and Addiction
Speaker 2So you have obviously heartfelt passion for helping others who are struggling with their relationship with Christ and others because of past trauma , or maybe it's something they're experiencing even now . If you were to meet with someone , if you were to coach someone , if you were to you know kind of help someone with that , where would you begin ?
Speaker 3I think all of it starts with discovery , and to me , discovery is realizing the way that our family of origin or different experiences in our life have affected us , and I think this is probably a really good segue into talking about how those events can affect us in a way that we don't understand .
Speaker 3And I think a lot of times , the wounds of our past can be manifest in different ways , you know , because all of us want the one thing that God told us that he can give us , and that's peace and joy . Okay , that's two things , but peace and joy , and so there's so many times that we're looking for that peace and joy in a way that isn't healthy , and joy that is so fleeting , you know , with the way that sexual integrity is just kind of flowing itself over the cliff is another way , you know . And then the way that drugs and alcohol are so prevalent those are all ways and things that people are doing to just try to get that dopamine hit , to even feel good for a minute . But that isn't what God has called us into . God has called us into being able to become resilient and to be able to regulate our own nervous system , and I think a lot of that is the same thing as being able to have a relationship with God and a healthy relationship to those around us .
Speaker 2So I'm thinking that there's people listening who are thinking Michael , you have no idea what I've been through . You know I'm really struggling here with this stronghold or with a pull toward this or that . You know , is there hope for me ? Is God really enough for me ? What would you , what would you say to that ?
Speaker 3I'd say they're right . I don't know what they've been through , but God does , and God knows where to meet them . And I think , when we look at so many of those counterfeit behaviors and counterfeit comforts , that we can see the unhealthy effect of what those are . Disordered eating can affect your body in a way that is truly physically unhealthy , and sexual impurity or sexual integrity issues can also affect us . But it can also affect our relationships and there's so many people that are caught up in that sort of thing that for that moment of pleasure they're sacrificing those closest to themselves . And to help them , to see that God wants a different plan for them , that God wants a different plan for their lives , I think is important .
Speaker 1What do you know personally about these kinds of struggles and breaking free from them ? As your wife , I kind of know some of the answers there . If somebody's listening who's like I can identify with that struggle that Michael just mentioned . How do they know that you know what you're talking about ?
Speaker 3I don't . I've been perfect my entire life . Wow , I don't , I've been perfect my entire life .
Speaker 3Wow . Well , for a lot of years I dealt with my own sexual integrity issues . I was self-employed for a long time , and the stress and the different things of that business were at times overwhelming , and instead of leaning more towards God , I leaned the other way , trying to find those counterfeit comforts or those moments of pleasure . That never helped . The stress is still there , the situation that I was going through was still there , and it wasn't until I made a decision to try to change that behavior that things in my life changed . You know , especially with certain behaviors , the only way that we can really start is by stopping Talking about myself with sexual integrity issues . For me to stop looking at porn or whatever , I can't kind of do it , I just have to do it . But the problem with that is is that the thing that drove us back to it is still there , and so by maintaining abstinence , by stopping looking at those things or doing those things , was the only way that I can begin that journey .
Speaker 3Knowing that those situations are still there and that stress is still there , and being able to find ways of re-regulating my nervous system were important . Just so y'all know . It's like my business ended , my business had to close and at that time I also had to file bankruptcy because of business debt and those sorts of things . And working on that bankruptcy thing it was super stressful . I mean because not only talking about the stress of the fact that that my life changed so drastically , but having to walk through this situation , that just almost added more stress . It was really difficult and it took me a long time to work through that . But I mean there was times that I could only work on it for like 15 minutes at a time and then I would have to get up and go do something else , physically be somewhere else .
Speaker 1You were titrating .
Speaker 3Yeah , I was titrating . I mean , that's a good example , I guess , of titrating .
Speaker 1But did you have to learn some new coping skills , since you were no longer using the coping skill that didn't really cope at all ?
Speaker 3Yes , but I think a lot of it also had to do a lot with just realizing that I'm not a victim in this situation . I have the power to continue to move forward . So even though just like that , it's like you know , I'd have to work on this bankruptcy information and it'd only be like 15 minutes and I'd feel stressed out and so I'd get up and I'd walk outside or I'd go do something else for a little bit and come back . That was , in a way a coping mechanism .
Speaker 3So even now it's just like you know , right now I'm where I work at we're trying to start this new project and so I'm researching all this information on even how to do this . So I'm reading through all this material yesterday and after like I don't know wasn't really that long 15 , 20 minutes , half an hour I'll be like all right , my brain's fried and I'd have to go outside and , you know , walk outside or go check on the guys and see what they're actually doing and kind of have a different interaction . You know , kind of reset my nervous system so I could go back and work on that some more .
Speaker 1So you've mentioned a couple of times that you've had to re-regulate your nervous system . I'm also kind of curious about if you had a coping mechanism that you were using that you just stopped . Because you stopped it , you said , and that way you were able to begin to do things a little differently . How did you do that ? Did you have to learn new coping skills , new ways of coping with the stress that you were feeling from filling out the bankruptcy materials or whatever it was ?
Speaker 3I guess in this way I should explain the parasympathetic and the sympathetic right , because the parasympathetic is that place where we're kind of at this state of peace and calm and we're okay with the world at this minute . And then , like me , going through the bankruptcy stuff , it created this anxiety and this sense of me being a failure and all these other emotions and as I was working on the bankruptcy material , there would be times like that anxiety would come up , and so for me to continue to work on that material , I needed to get back to that place of kind of peace and calm and being okay with the fact that I'm continuing to walk through this really hard thing . Like I was saying , I needed to go outside and , yeah , I needed to learn different coping mechanisms . I needed to find a different way that would help me to get back to that regulated place instead of a dysregulated place .
Speaker 3And I mean honestly , it was like you know , I think a lot of people will just exchange one addiction for another and I was real intentional to try not to do that . I don't know Heidi might say , well , he was addicted to corn chips for a while , but you know , trying not to turn to food or turn to other things I never was somebody who really drank or did drugs or anything , so that wasn't really a problem or to try to find these other activities that replace that . Because my goal was how do I remain present , how do I become that person that God created me to be and to impact not really impact the world , but to have a healthy relationship with those around me . And so in that way I was intentional in those things and try to find healthy ways of helping my nervous system return to that kind of parasympathetic place .
Speaker 1Okay , that's awesome . So I take it that's part of what you're passionate about helping others with . Is that kind of what resilient redemption is about ?
Speaker 3Yes .
Speaker 2So I know in my own experience , michael and I've talked about this on the podcast a lot my counterfeit comfort for many , many years was food and eating . And I was trying to fill that void . And when you talk about that state of feeling unsettled and kind of hyperactive or not active but what's the word Aware , those you know , just feeling like kind of frantic , like I used to call it frantic eating . So I know that for me , until I invited God into this , I mean I struggled for a lot of years , since I was like 14 years old . There would be some kind of a stress , something was going on , whether it was in the moment , or maybe it was just an overall situation in my home , or you know what I was dealing with in my life and I would try to stop it on my own and I would try to change it and somehow get out of it and somehow break that .
Speaker 2And I just really struggled with that until about 10 years ago when I met Heidi and she taught me how to renew my mind . I couldn't get my thoughts going in a different direction . It was like they were stuck on replay . You know , I just had the same patterns again and again . So what did that look like for you as far as inviting God in to help you with this , because , of course , he has created our bodies this way so that we can survive , right , but we want to be able to come back to that place of I'm okay , you know , I'm not unsafe right now . We want to be able to come back to that place of I'm okay , I'm not unsafe right now . We want to be able to come back down . How does that look like for you in terms of inviting God in and even changing your thoughts , renewing your mind ?
Speaker 3Well , the first thing I would have to say is that I don't think that I could have done it without the help of Steve .
Speaker 3That was in our life for about six years thereabouts , and he walked , he walked us , he walked me through a lot of things unhealthy thought habits and those sorts of things and he really called me out a lot of times on those things . But , more importantly , he called me into the person that I'm supposed to be , right , I mean , especially as a man and as a husband , it is our responsibility to be the spiritual head of our households , but that begins with me being able to have a spiritual relationship with God . To be able to do that , I think without Steve walking me through a lot of that stuff though , I wouldn't be where I am today , and I think that's true in most people's lives without help , you know , if somebody is trying to do it on their own in fact , that even in my opinion , goes with , like some of the evergreen courses and stuff it's like we can try to walk through the material , but without accountability and without somebody there to help you to walk through it , you might be just putting frosting on an ugly cake , you know , wow .
Speaker 2Spoken from a baker .
Speaker 3Right .
God's Guidance and Healing Through Relationships
Speaker 2Well , so it sounds like God brought Steve into your life and Heidi's life and you said six years . That's a long time , but he was a coach , he was a mentor , he was a friend and you trusted him and so God spoke through him and it sounds like I mean , I know that Steve was very bold and that he didn't beat around the bush .
Speaker 3He didn't hold any punches push .
Speaker 2He didn't hold any punches . Yeah , he was direct in his approach . But because you trusted him and obviously God chose him for you guys , he was perfect for you guys , especially in that season before you got married and also in the beginning of your marriage and also in the beginning of your marriage , and so God provided someone to link arms with you and walk with you , and it sounds like that's something that you would like to do , what you would like to do with coaching and helping others in the future .
Speaker 3That's true .
Speaker 2And I love what you said about on our own . It's just really , really hard , and I don't yeah , I don't think that God designed us that way to be able to just kind of handle things on our own , that we need him first and foremost and we also need people who are led by him to come alongside us and help us and guide us and walk us through those situations . I would love to ask you , michael , what are some of the biggest things that you felt like God really taught you through Steve that , have you know , affected you even after he's passed ?
Speaker 3Think some of the stuff that he walked me through maybe that's an easier way to say it is that there were things that happened in my home of maybe that's an easier way to say it is that there were things that happened in my home of origin that were really hard , that I think . Because of those things , I had a hard time trusting Heidi , believing what she said about me personally , about her loving me and those sorts of things , and just that her and I are in this together and she's not trying to do something that is intentionally deceptive . For us to be married and for us to have a healthy relationship is that I need to let those walls come down that kept everybody up and at the very least , I need to first of all , allow God into that place , but secondly , allow my wife into that place and then from there I have the ability to continue to heal and to allow other people to continue to heal and to allow other people into my life and to that place .
Speaker 2That was a really an impenetrable city for a long time . Yeah , definitely Awesome . Thank you , michael . Michael , is there something else that you would want to share , that you would want people to know about how you feel ?
Speaker 3I guess the only thing I can really think of is kind of what I was just saying about what Steve helped me walk through is that I think , especially when it comes to men for sure , that we think we can do it on our own and we think we don't need people . And we do . We need the ability to be able to trust and to allow people in , and I think I mean in my situation it was really hard to do that , but that's what God has called us to do . But most importantly , we have to trust Him first . The Bible tells us who he is and what he has done for us by sending his son and wanting that close relationship with us . But I think , because of our , of different people's , pasts , that that's hard for them to be able to do that and we have to be able to start there . That's , that is , the beginning of healing is to first trust God and then to be able to trust those that are safe , that are the closest to us .
Speaker 2So maybe we can end with just one more question that came to mind as you shared that you mentioned . It's so important to know who God is first . So who is God to you , Michael , when you think about ? If you were to describe God to somebody , how would you describe him ?
Speaker 3First of all , he is the creator of the universe , so his power is a power that we can never understand . And the fact that he was so heartbroken at the Garden of Eden when Adam and Eve ate from that tree , that he set into motion of allowing his son to come to die for us because he wanted that relationship with us . I think it's really powerful because I know in my life I didn't feel that my parents wanted to have a relationship with me .
Speaker 3And our God wanted so bad to have that personal relationship with us that he allowed his son to come here to show us . You know , I'm just not the creator of the universe . I am the God who wants to be a part of you , that I allowed my son to come and then I filled you with the Holy Spirit so that you know that my presence is always with you .
Speaker 2Beautiful . Thank you . Well , we are just so , so thankful that you've been here with us , michael . Thank you for sharing your heart . Yeah , thanks for joining us . Thanks for joining us today , and we're so glad that all of you out there in podcast land have been here with us too . Yes , we look forward to seeing you in our next podcast episode of Revelation Within on the go .
Speaker 1See you next time . Bye for now . Bye-bye for now .
