Speaker 1: 0:02

Hi, welcome to our podcast Revelation Within On the Go. I'm Heidi Biles-Maepperson, one of your hosts and the owner and lead coach of the Revelation Within ministry.

Speaker 2: 0:12

And I'm Christina Motley, your other host, also a Revelation Within coach and Heidi's partner in all things Revelation Within.

Speaker 1: 0:34

Welcome to the show, the show that brings you the best of the best.

Speaker 2: 0:40

Have you with us, yes, and good to be with you, heidi. Good to be with you.

Speaker 1: 0:50

We've been visiting for the last hour and a half or so Yakking about life, and one of the things that we started talking about was what are some things that the people that we've coached, both one-on-one and in groups or been in our community, have in common with each other? What are the threads that we see again and again? And the reason why we think this might be a really good thing for us to talk about in a podcast is because one of the common threads is everybody thinks their story is unique. Yes, there's something wrong with them, right?

Speaker 2: 1:25

Right, well, and it's not that their story isn't unique, because of course we are all different, but there are a lot of similarities and I see them in my life, in my past, yes, me too.

Speaker 1: 1:39

I see the same ones. Right.

Speaker 2: 1:42

So, yeah, I think that what we want to do is bring you a little bit of hope today.

Speaker 1: 1:49

But first we got to take you through the dirt. Yes, exactly, I'm just getting over a cold, so you can hear me rasping in my lap. Sorry about that, but seriously, there's a lot of things that we all probably do struggle with, even though we think it's just us, and one of them is shame. And so shame keeps us isolating, of course, yes, but we feel like, oh, nobody would understand, they would think ill of me or whatever it might be, and so shame is definitely a common thread.

Speaker 2: 2:20

Oh my gosh, it's so, so common. I was thinking and we were talking about this a little bit, heidi, how you know, we all deal with all kinds of issues throughout our lives. We all do. We all hit challenges and roadblocks and milestones, and you know, in our careers, in our families, and you know all kinds of things. Why is this one? Why is this food? Why is this one? Why is this food eating?

Speaker 1: 2:51

body image. Why is?

Speaker 2: 2:51

this one feel so impossible to so many of us, and I think that you just hit the nail on the head with the idea of shame. It's like it's a secret stronghold that we don't feel safe talking about to anybody.

Speaker 1: 3:03

Or, if we talk about it, we have to juxtapose it with what diet, what plan, what solution we're on, when that may not be where the direction we're headed, because we get that it's deeper than that. Yes.

Speaker 2: 3:17

A while back, I heard someone talk about dieting in a way where they were very, very angry, and this was I can't remember if it was a therapist or a coach or somebody and I thought why are they so angry? And you know what I feel like. In some ways, now I understand. Well, I understand because there's a message in our culture that says this one thing you should be ashamed of yourself and it's not safe to talk about it. And so let's minimize and let's hide and let's go in secret with this one, and I hate it. I hate that.

Speaker 1: 4:01

And it's multifaceted, so it's like, if it's not, hate that and it's multifaceted, so it's like if it's not, you don't look right. You don't look a certain shape or size that you should, according to our culture's beauty standards, or whatever, then you're not taking care of yourself is another aspect to it.

Speaker 1: 4:18

Yes, and so it's like it's got so many different levels and targets us in different places. And then when you add in that so many of us have been told you're supposed to eat this and not supposed to eat that, that adds to the shame that we feel and the secrecy. Well, let's talk for a moment, Christina, before we go any further. What is a stronghold? Exactly, Because this topic definitely encompasses everything about a stronghold.

Speaker 2: 4:49

Yeah, so in the Bible God says that he is our stronghold, which I love that picture. I love thinking of him having a stronghold on me.

Speaker 2: 4:59

But, there are things in this world that can be our stronghold, and so it's a counterfeit comfort, but it's almost more than that. It's like it grips you, and those of you out there I feel like you will probably say oh yeah, I have that. I have something that grips me. It's like a magnetic pull toward it, and over time it gets stronger and stronger, and we throw everything at it that we can think of and, of course, food and eating is not the only one, there's many, but we throw everything at it we can think of. We read every book, we pay for every program, we try everything we can think of, and it just seems to get bigger and bigger the more attention we give it.

Speaker 1: 5:52

Is that a?

Speaker 2: 5:52

good way to describe it. Oh yeah, definitely.

Speaker 1: 5:55

And the world looks on it. We've said this before and I know I'll say it again the world looks on the externals and says to us you've got a food, eating and weight problem. And God, I think, is saying wait a minute. There's something else going on here and it is a stronghold problem. Who do you run to for safety, for solace, for encouragement, for rest, even? And if we have a stronghold problem, then the solution is going to be different than if we have a weight, food and eating problem.

Speaker 1: 6:30

And so the world tells us that the solution is going to be diet and exercise and taking care of yourselves. That's in quotes and God's like, but that's not going to take care of the stronghold, that's not going to take care of what's really happening here, and so we want to talk about the things that many people have in common with one another, who come to us, but we want to be sure that you hear the message of hope as well.

Speaker 2: 6:54

Well, and one of the things I think that has really surprised me over the last years is it's not about anyone's size either. We have people come to us at absolutely every size, every size. It's not about that. And then we have people come to us with physical challenges. We have people come to us with, you know, all kinds of things that they've been through and they're just you know, like I said this to you a few minutes ago, heidi there, just there, isn't a plan. There isn't like a list of advice or a plan that we could give to anyone to fix this.

Speaker 2: 7:34

There isn't, it's not there, it's not out there, even though you walk in a bookstore remember bookstores, bookstores Walk in a bookstore and there's, you know, five bookshelves full of self-help books. Try this, try that, try this. You know you'll have a new habit in this many days and you'll have this and nothing lasts, nothing lasts. So we have to go deeper with this. We have to go deeper with this. What happens often is that we have people come to us just like Heidi and I came to Thin Within all those years ago and come and say I'm desperate, I don't know what to do, I'm in despair. This has been happening. I've been in this shame cycle my whole life. And then we talk about going deeper, and then they leave.

Speaker 1: 8:27

And they go to Weight Watchers or they go to something like that that has a plan. And I'm so glad you mentioned this because in my mind right now, as I'm thinking, what are ways we can avoid going deeper? And one of them is gravitate towards a food plan because we want to throw at this. Whatever fixes what is seen and God tells us that what is seen is temporary, what is unseen is eternal. I lost a boatload of weight with Weight Watchers once, and then I did back.

Speaker 2: 8:54

It's not like we don't understand, we do understand, we understand. There's this little panic that runs through you when you realize this goes deeper than somebody telling me what's on the good list and what's on the bad list of what to eat or what time of day I should eat. There's a little panic If somebody says to you Christina, it's okay to eat after seven what? There's a panic? Right, it used to be for me, not anymore, but it's like, but that's a rule, that's a rule that I've always followed. We've seen that in our coaching groups too.

Speaker 1: 9:30

Yes, we have, yeah, where we dare to rock that boat.

Speaker 2: 9:35

We've seen that everywhere and there's hundreds of those, those little ideas, those thoughts, those restrictions, those rules I guess there's hundreds of those for all of us and they come up and it's like, oh no, well, I'm not doing that, but it's never served us, it hasn't solved the problem at all Right, right, Exactly.

Speaker 1: 9:59

So what are some of the things that many of the people who have come to us have in common both with us and with one another? I know that one of the things we've mentioned already that most of us have experienced in some way, with restrictive diets or even compulsive almost exercise, sometimes for entire decades yes, Not just a one and done type of experience, it's ongoing. It's like well, that didn't work 10 years ago. I'm going back to try it again now, Exactly. I know that a lot of us were. I mean, let's go back in time. For me, it started with family members. That meant well, but it didn't go well. You know what they intended was to control what I ate and how much, and you know even when they put me on diets later, they meant well, but what it did was create this real challenging issue for me.

Speaker 1: 10:54

I don't blame them today because I recognize that I'm an adult woman, a redeemed woman of God, who makes her own choices. I have agency, but it's still a part of my history.

Speaker 2: 11:04

And for me too. I mean, I look back and all kinds of disordered eating stuff was going on in my house. My whole childhood it was there. It was especially there with my mom. Yeah, I'm trying to think of my dad, he just went along with everything, but yeah, that was there and that's definitely that's a big one. We hear a lot of people talk about all the dysfunctional stuff that happened when they were kids, and that is valid and that is real and important for sure, and it does impact you, it does.

Speaker 2: 11:38

It does. It impacts us for sure, but that is one of the ways of going deeper really is to kind of go there a little bit not stay there forever but, definitely go. And let me think about that Inviting God in. It's like, oh wow, this pattern really came from my mom.

Speaker 1: 11:57

Yeah, and it's not to blame, it's to understand. I know that when I first realized that, okay, I'm a product of a lot of things that happened in my childhood, it helped me to not feel quite so crazy, which is good, because once you realize you're not crazy, that you're just like most, of everybody else, yeah.

Speaker 1: 12:19

Then you know okay, I bet there's solutions here. I bet there's solutions. And so you know, grab a hold of the hand of God and walk with him through the valley of his shadow of death. That's what it may feel like for some of us. I know it did for me and does when I need to revisit it, which I think sometimes we do. But when I look at the abuse that I had experienced around food and eating, the only way I could really process it, the way I needed to, was to lean into the Lord and do it on purpose with him, his way, and that meant doing a ton of forgiveness work along the way as well.

Speaker 1: 12:55

I mean, how many of us don't have somebody in our histories who used words to describe the way we looked in an unflattering way or are you going to eat that? You can't eat that and not gain weight, or whatever. It could be anybody. Maybe it was worse than that. There was somebody that told us a story once about how they would go visit their grandma for a certain length of time and at the beginning of the visit they would get on a scale. And at the end of the visit they would get on a scale. And there have been all kinds of stories like that and we've had stories similar to mine about abuse around food. I mean actual abuse. If you don't eat this, you will get slapped around.

Speaker 2: 13:37

I mean it's hard to process that.

Speaker 1: 13:40

It is, but God wants us free of it. It's negative impact on us, and so he wants to walk with us through it. Extend forgiveness and I don't just mean like, okay, I forgive them for everything they did. God will show us what that has to look like for us. But at 63 years of age now, I know I will never be abused around food again. I don't need to let my childhood abuse come with me to the dinner table. I don't. I'm free from that.

Speaker 2: 14:10

Hallelujah, right, exactly, but that is. That's one of the most common things, and you know why. Why shouldn't we be talking about that? There's no shame there. You know, it wasn't your fault. Our parents are imperfect. We're imperfect parents too, always asking the Lord. That's why look and learn is so important. We've got some participants working so hard to look and really learn, which means you're inviting God in, and it's like why am I doing this, lord? Why am I doing this? Where did this come from? Let's figure it out together and then being able to move on, and that's so, so hopeful, so healing. God wants to bring healing to all those areas that are causing roadblocks in our journeys with him.

Speaker 1: 15:02

Yeah, I would say some of us. I think it was a product of those dysfunctional food behaviors and all that we were raised with. That caused us to gravitate towards certain programs that were available.

Speaker 1: 15:18

I know for me and for many that come to us, they struggled with embracing a view of food and eating and God, because he was a part of this, that taught us that we were condemned for not losing weight. We were condemned for eating one bite past satisfied, and I think some of us may have gravitated to that approach for a solution because it was familiar to the abuse and dysfunction of our past.

Speaker 1: 15:50

Even though it didn't look the same when you look deeper it was. It was condemning. It was not the voice of God. That is not condemning Right.

Speaker 2: 15:59

Yeah, definitely, that's so, so, so true, which kind of leads into another commonality of the people that we see a lot, and that is that our view of God is inaccurate, and I would never have said this before. I thought I've read the Bible my whole life. I know who God is, I know what he does, his attributes, all of that, but here I was feeling condemned by him and feeling like he must be disappointed with me and I'm pushing him away when I'm engaging in this stronghold. Where did all of that come from? That's not biblical. I have no power at all to push God away. And how many times in the word does he tell us I will never, ever, ever leave you. I am with you, I am with you, I will never leave you, I am with you, and that there's nothing that can separate us from his love.

Speaker 1: 17:00

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 17:01

Somehow there's been a message that's been released out there for years and years that says God is disappointed in you. You're pushing him away by your behavior. That's not truth, that's not from the word of God, it's not who God is. No, yeah, so in Revelation, within, that's where we start. Right there, we start with who is God. Who is God, who is he really? And you have to kind of take a step back and admit you know what. Maybe I'm not exactly sure.

Speaker 1: 17:35

And I know this throws people quite a bit. They come and they hope they're going to have an answer for how to have, I don't know, the body that they hope to have, or peace with food and eating, and that's great too. But we go who is God? Let's look at this, let's find out what God's word says about who he is. And they're like wait a minute, just tell me what to do to eat.

Speaker 2: 17:56

Yeah, Like, why are we starting with this? You know I've been reading the Bible since I was seven or something.

Speaker 1: 18:03

I've been leading Bible study, fellowship, or I'm a core leader, or what I mean, or I'm a speaker, I go to women's conferences and speak.

Speaker 2: 18:12

I'm an author. Why do I need to look at this?

Speaker 1: 18:15

Right, right. And but this if? Oh, my goodness for me. This came home to me and it was like wow, when I know what God is really like, I have a deep appreciation and love for him and I don't want to try to withhold something from him. When I hear myself say it's my food, my weight, my body, my eating, it's not about me, that's a really good indication that I am missing the place God wants to have in my life, and it might be because I think he is not who he actually says he is.

Speaker 2: 18:53

Oh, that's so true, heidi, that's so true. Another indication is I don't want to be with God, like I'm ashamed to be with him right now. I mean, gosh, I felt like that for, I don't know, 40 years. I never told anybody, you know, I thought I've got to get myself together, I've got to figure this out before I go to the Lord. And how many people have we heard say that?

Speaker 1: 19:22

Oh yeah, oh yeah. I've heard people say things over and over again. I feel like I'm letting God down. He's so disappointed with me. You are not holding God up. No, the world is not resting on your shoulders, and neither is God's mood.

Speaker 2: 19:38

No, I mean, how about this truth? God doesn't need us to do anything, actually, yeah.

Speaker 1: 19:44

That was a big one for me.

Speaker 2: 19:46

I was like he doesn't Wait, what? No? I mean, I thought I was supposed to be like running out there and saving the world. I had a lot of beliefs that were not right and sometimes they still pop back up and it's like wait a minute, wait a minute. I need to go to the word and I need to be grounded to see what are God's thoughts about this. How about this? Yeah, how about that?

Speaker 1: 20:13

Like I've never even asked him yeah, and so often about God. You know what is he like and oh, as I get to know him better, I find that my heart is softened towards him and I want to give him my life, I want to surrender, and that's really cool. But then I also begin to want to think his thoughts, about my emotions, about difficult people in my life, difficult situations that keep going on and on and on and on, and on, and on, and on and on, and those are the things that I might eat in response to.

Speaker 1: 20:48

Oh for sure. And so if I could swap out my thoughts for his thoughts about him, wouldn't that make a huge difference in the way? You know how do I react when I am faced with a surprising disappointment or when something is an ongoing struggle. I mean, if I'm thinking God's thoughts about it, I'm not going to run for the food and just wallow in a bag of this or that. I'm not, because God wouldn't. So I'm going to think his thoughts, and I want that because I've gotten to know him. And then, along with that is who do I think I am? Who do I think I?

Speaker 2: 21:28

am, who do you?

Speaker 1: 21:29

think you are Heidi, do I think I am? Who do I think?

Speaker 2: 21:32

I am. Who do you think you are, heidi? But what does God say about that? Yeah, you know what. That is so important. Those two things. We've talked about that a lot in the last few months. Who is God? But now, who am I? How does he see me? This is huge. I can't even tell you how big this is. This and this is huge for me. It's huge for Heidi. We understand this, but those of you that are listening, that are feeling like a stronghold has got a hold of you. This is huge. This is huge.

Speaker 1: 22:05

Where is my identity? This is huge. It is when is my identity.

Speaker 2: 22:08

Who am I and why, and what do I do with my failure? I keep failing, and so my identity must be I'm a failure.

Speaker 1: 22:58

Ooh, no, where do?

Speaker 2: 22:59

we go with that. What does God say? He says bring it to me. Yeah, he says, bring it to me. He says you are not disappointing me, because I don't see you that way. You are God's girl or God's guy? Yeah, what does the Bible say? You are radiant in my sight.

Speaker 1: 23:22

Yeah, you are my beloved.

Speaker 2: 23:24

I sing over you With loud singing and shout sing over you With loud singing and shout I delight over you. Yes, we're sitting in the corner and we're saying, god, you're disappointed. And he's saying, no, I'm not, I delight over you, I'm celebrating you. What else does he?

Speaker 1: 23:44

say Well. I mean, if he makes beauty from ashes, then it seems to me he can celebrate and make beautiful. My mess ups over food and eating and body image and all of that. I mean beauty from ashes is a really extreme step.

Speaker 2: 23:58

Yeah, it really, really is. I mean, he says to us you are my beloved, let's work on this together. I'm your healer. I want you to be healed. I'm the one that gives you peace and joy. Oh my gosh, I mean, it's amazing. And so we spend a lot of time at Revelation Within on those two. What about the food list? Where's that?

Speaker 1: 24:24

Well, now I was going to say somebody says a lot of people say yeah, yeah, yeah, Just tell me what I got to eat and how I got to do it and what time and how much. Yeah, yeah, and is it the same as?

Speaker 2: 24:34

intermittent fasting. Should I sit or stand or do somersaults while I'm eating?

Speaker 1: 24:39

What do you think? Should I use the food tracker? Oh, my goodness, when we put the main thing is the main thing. I mean I know people say that sort of thing all the time, but it's true. Well, god says it in his word seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all these things will be added to you, they'll fall into place. And if you look at the context, I think it's Matthew six it's talking about what you will eat and what you will drink and what you will wear. How many of us are free from thinking of those things and worrying about them in any given day? What am I going to wear? I look at my closet. I go, oh, nothing fits. That's a concern for me. And what am I going to eat and what am I going to drink? And God says be obsessed instead with me and my righteousness.

Speaker 1: 25:26

Everything else is going to fall into its proper place.

Speaker 2: 25:29

Oh, I love that. Be obsessed with me instead. I love that. I love that. I just had a picture in my mind of my bed with like a giant pile of clothes on it. You can look at my bed and you can figure out where my identity is placed If I've got a huge pile of clothes. If it has taken me half an hour to figure out what to wear that day. My identity I'm struggling with my identity. But if you know if I can grab an outfit and go and I'm fine and I mean, then it's like that for me. That's a little temperature gauge?

Speaker 1: 26:07

Oh yeah, I know. And how many of us do that to figure out what to wear to church? I mean really, how many different outfits do we go through before we? Are willing to get in a car to go to church, I mean, and it may not be to dress up. It may just be to be comfortable and to feel good in your own skin.

Speaker 1: 26:26

That's another thing that we all struggle with. Most of us struggle with is, you know, this battle with what's in our closet. And, yeah, it does reflect on what am I really allowing to drive me? And I want, I want it to be the mind of Christ, because he says I have it.

Speaker 2: 26:43

Sure, I mean, I feel like so often God says to me Christina, you're a mom, yes, you're an imperfect mom, yes, but that's not your identity. Your identity is in me. So that takes all the pressure off. I'm going to try my best. I'm going to do what you know God is leading me. I'm going to make mistakes, I'm going to trip and stumble, but my identity, what's my identity? It stays the same. I love that. My identity in Christ is I'm his. Yes, that's it, I'm his, I'm his. The rest of it's going to ebb and flow and change and it's going to be great and it's going to be terrible, and it's going to be up and down, my career and what I can do, what I can't do, how my health is or all those things, but who we are in Christ, it doesn't change. I love that list that we have, heidi, that we share.

Speaker 1: 27:38

Yeah, you can find that list at teamlifeisgoodcom forward slash identity. Teamlifeisgoodcom forward slash identity. That's all about who I am in Christ.

Speaker 2: 27:51

Well, and there's scripture references for each one, so you can go there in the word and see the context and read even more. It's fantastic. There's many who am I in Christ lists out there. This is a really good one if you don't have one.

Speaker 1: 28:07

But what?

Speaker 2: 28:08

if right, what if? Is one of our mind renewal tools. What if we spend some time every day thinking about praying through talking with God, about who he is and who we are in him? How would that change the way we view ourselves, the way we view our relationships, the way we view our work, our failures, our successes?

Speaker 1: 28:34

It all becomes about him, not about us Right, and that's making me think in some roundabout sort of way. Another thing that a lot of people have in common who come to us is the spirit of perfectionism.

Speaker 1: 28:48

Yes, that kind of undermines a lot of things I mean, and I think some people even think that that's something to be proud of and that's fine. But it's really tripping you up when it comes to because what do I do with my failures if I am a perfectionist, right. And so for me, those tendencies I have, like if I can't pull it together for you know, however many days in a row, I'm going to quit and try something else Again. I'm focusing not on who God says I am or who God is. I'm focusing on what is temporary, what is visible, and what is visible is not worth that kind of bandwidth in my head.

Speaker 1: 29:29

I want to seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be added to me as well, and so perfectionism is a trick.

Speaker 2: 29:37

It's a trick, like comparison is a trick. Oh yeah, very much. It's the enemy's trick. He loves shame, he loves comparison, he loves when we get stuck in bitterness.

Speaker 1: 29:49

So do people who come to Revelation Within, come to a place of peace with food, eating and their bodies. Christina.

Speaker 2: 29:58

The answer is yes, but the answer is also it's a process, and so we are all in process. I am in process, heidi and I are both in process. Everyone, we're all in process. And so some of us come and it's like can you just fix this? Okay, how many weeks will it take? How many months? And we can't go there because it's different for everyone, and we're going to be in process until we step into heaven.

Speaker 1: 30:28

That's just how it is to be in process until we step into heaven.

Speaker 1: 30:33

That's just how it is.

Speaker 1: 30:33

One of the things that I love about this approach, though, is that, unlike when we fix the food and we change what we eat and how we eat and how often we eat and why we eat unlike that, which is temporary, because if I get sick, if I'm not in the mood, if I get bad news, I might throw all of that out the window for some reason, when we focus on mind renewal, that is like an investment in who I am becoming.

Speaker 1: 30:59

It doesn't go away if I stop doing it. It is always there to go back to when I remind myself of who God is and what he's like and what he does for people, and what he says about me. I don't lose any ground there. You know, if something happens and I don't renew my mind for a day or two or something like that, instead, it's right there to come back up to the surface, where I can enjoy being reminded by the Holy Spirit that this is who you are, this is who I am. That's a great place to be, where I can't be derailed by what comes my way, when I'm focusing on those things that are unseen, those things that make me who I really am inside and out yes.

Speaker 2: 31:44

Right, right, right. It's making the main thing. The main thing, like you said. And so, yes, we have lots and lots and lots of people who come to us and we see these big, huge smiles on the other side of the Zoom and we see that this area, you know, god has really touched this area and he's really working on this one over here, and there is more peace and more freedom. I'm not going to say you're not going to arrive, no, there's not going to be an arrival date.

Speaker 1: 32:18

We don't promise that you will never struggle again.

Speaker 2: 32:21

No, we can't do that. We can't promise that You'll know what to do, though You'll be equipped. You'll be equipped, you'll know what to do, you'll know who to turn to. And that's an amazing.

Speaker 2: 32:33

I remember in my own journey, when Heidi, you and I were coaching and I had this aha or maybe it was you know something that you said where it's like Christina, you're going to mess up, so let's just have, let's be ready for it. It took that kind of that sting out of the failure. It's like, oh, I can be, like you said, equipped, I can be ready, I know exactly what to do. I know exactly what to do when I'm struggling, when that sorrow is overtaking me. I know that my thoughts are incredibly important and I know that God has made a way for us to be free.

Speaker 2: 33:13

Life's not going to be perfect. Challenges were going to be. They're going to come again and again and again and again. But that sanctification is that going to God and let's work this out together so that there's more peace, there's more freedom. Yes, we're on that road. Yes, I love that that's. It's a beautiful journey, yay, yes, and the intimacy with the Lord. I've never had it better, I feel like, and I love that. You know there's. There's no shame. Shame is not from God.

Speaker 1: 33:49

No, what it's not yeah.

Speaker 2: 33:51

It's not, it's not, it's not there's so much hope here.

Speaker 1: 33:57

Well, we hope that you've experienced a little taste of hope, listener, and that you'll come back and join us next time.

Speaker 2: 34:06

Yes, and we're so glad that you've been here for this episode of Revelation Within.

Speaker 1: 34:16

On the go.

Speaker 2: 34:23

Bye for now. See you next time.