SPEAKER_01: 0:01

Hi, and welcome to our podcast, Revelation Within on the Go. I'm Heidi Files McEpherson, one of your hosts, and the owner and lead coach of the RevelationWithin.org Ministry.

SPEAKER_00: 0:14

And I'm Christina Potling, your other host, also a Revelation Within coach, and I'm a partner in all things Revelation Within. We are so happy to invite you to join us for this episode of Revelation Within.

SPEAKER_01: 0:38

We're so glad you're here. Come on in. Come on in. Sit right down. Yeah. Today we're entering a topic, uh, actually a rhythm. I think it's fair to call it that. That and it's one that's often misunderstood or even created into a burden by the culture around us. And it's the rhythm or the idea of movement, exercise, activity, and what it's all about. You know, God's heart for movement, our movement, is gentle, it's joyful, it's spacious, and deeply connected to his presence. Ta-da!

SPEAKER_00: 1:23

I love that. I love looking at movement in that way. That is such a such a refreshing way. So, okay, movement then in God's kingdom isn't about earning or achieving or shaping or shrinking or proving. Movement in God's kingdom then is about inhabiting the body he gave us with gratitude. Yeah, it's about listening for his whisper. Walk with me or rest with me. I am right here. Ooh, doesn't that sound good? Let's look at some scripture. Okay, Acts 17, 28. In him we live and move and have our being. I just love that move is in this verse. I know. You know, I've read this verse a million times and never really thought about why does it say move in there? You know, moving is is part of what we do, how we live. Movement isn't separate from God, it actually exists within him. So every breath, every time we stretch, every step is already taking place in his presence. Isn't that? I just love thinking about it that way. This means that even the smallest motion or choosing rest can become worship. What? It's worship to move, it's worship to rest. Oh, let's let's talk more about this. I'm loving it.

SPEAKER_01: 2:55

Yeah, yeah. You know, I think the bottom line is God loves it when his people respond to his leadership, to his loving, good, perfect, sovereign leadership. And so if he says move, move, if he says rest, rest, if he says eat this, eat this. If he says abstain, abstain, that gives his heart such joy, I think, when we're surrendering to his good leadership. Yeah. So Psalm 16, 11 says, You make known to me the path of life in your presence is fullness of joy. You know, God doesn't call us into movement to exhaust us, but to lead us into joy. No, it's so interesting because I bet you everybody listening has had a situation where they have used movement to accomplish something else other than just the movement for movement's sake. For instance, have you ever had a dog that you wanted to calm down? So you threw a ball for it for half an hour in the backyard and then it slept for an hour or two, or a child even. Many of us with our children or grandchildren, or if you're a teacher at a school, let's go out for an impromptu recess break because we're all waking around and the clouds have parted, it's not raining anymore. It doesn't work that way. God doesn't call us to move to exhaust us, but to lead us into joy. And I just love that that joyful movement isn't forced movement, it's movement done as we are aware of God's nearness, of we're aware of his goodness and his delight in each one of us.

SPEAKER_00: 4:42

Is that beautiful or what? That is so, so beautiful. And what I love, and I know I mentioned this to you yesterday, Heidi, what I love so much is that this message, this beautiful picture of movement as worship, this is for all of us. This is for anyone, this is for everyone. This is for the person that is bedridden. This is for the person who's in the best shape of their life. This is for the person who's recovering from an injury. This is from the person who, you know, has very little time and is a caregiver or whatever. Um, this is for everybody. And I love that. I just love that. Matthew 11, 28 through 30 says, Come to me, all you who are weary. My yoke is easy and my burden is light. So I think about this this way: if if movement feels heavy to you or pressured or even punishing, that's not coming from Jesus. It's not coming from the Lord. His movement always will lighten you. It'll bring you up, it'll bring life to you, never weigh you down. His invitation often includes rest, sacred rest, restorative rest, worshipful rest. And then this is like mind-blowing. I feel like I just want to share. Yes, yes. So I have a question for you, Heidi. Okay. How is this different from the way you related to movement before Thin Within, now Revelation Within?

SPEAKER_01: 6:24

Oh, way different.

SPEAKER_00: 6:27

Way, way, way.

SPEAKER_01: 6:29

Yes. I mean, I've always loved sports and activity. I never loved running or swimming laps. Anything repetitive I did not like. Um, but if I was playing a game of some sort, you know, softball, tennis, I loved moving my body. But during the season when I was like actively trying to shape shift, if you wink, wink, get my drift, I would use movement as a way to purge what I had eaten earlier. It really was. It was like, okay, if I ate something that was beyond my calorie allotment, pardon the reference to calories or point allotment, same, same. I would feel like I needed to go back to the gym for the second or third time today and take care of business by, yeah, you know, um, calories in, calories out type thing. So I definitely used activity, exercise, and to punish myself in some ways and definitely urge. Definitely. Now it doesn't mean that every time I did it was like that, but I definitely I remember when I'm like, okay, let's see how much faster I can make this scale needle move. I'm going to add a two-hour walk to my life every day. And it's like, okay, that's not from God. You know, the pressure, the heavy, the just the punishing feeling. It doesn't come from Jesus. You are so right. You know, it's interesting. We refer to exercise, activity, whatever in the world, and it's all about the body, it's all about changing the way the body looks, how fit it is. It's really all about the body. But God honoring movement doesn't start with a body, it actually starts with our spirit, uh, our spirit united with God's own Holy Spirit deep within us. You know, we are an embodied soul. We're not a spirit trapped in a body, and our body is part of worship. Now, I want to just address this phrase embodied soul a moment because it has been hijacked by the new age movement and who knows who else. When we say that you are an embodied soul, it's you have a physical body that God has entrusted you with. That is just a fact. Your body is what you navigate through this world, and it's the container for all of who you are. And so to say you're an embodied soul just means that is where your soul is, and your spirit is there too, your mind is there too. And so, of course, your body is a part of your worship. First Corinthians 6, 19, 20 reminds us that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit. So glorify God with your body. Now, like me, all through the years that you might have been a Christian and were trying to shape shift, you might have used that verse to kind of beat yourself up a little bit. You know, if my body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, then I better exercise it more, I better eat less, I better do this, I better do that. Okay. Um, what it really means, at least consider this. What if your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit? Glorify God with your body. What if that means a walk with prayer is worship? What if that means stretching with gratitude is worship?

SPEAKER_00: 9:57

Yes.

SPEAKER_01: 9:58

What if that means a breath prayer is worship? What if that means lying down because you need rest is worship? Wow, the possibilities are endless. God is honored again because our heart is turned toward him. We want to surrender to his will, not because of calories or steps. Did you see my graph for this week? Look at all the steps I put in every day. Is that what God is about? No, no, he wants our hearts turned to him. Okay, so Christine, how about you? Is what we're sharing on this episode is it different from the way you have related to movement at all over the years?

SPEAKER_00: 11:47

Oh, yes, very, very, very, very different. Yeah, I mean, I grew up in the Los Angeles area in a culture where all of my girlfriends and I, we were constantly feeling tremendous pressure to look a certain way, to um shape shift, like you said, to be more fit, more muscular. And so it was crazy how much that I did. I did so much working out and exercising, whatever you want, whatever word you want to use, that I found myself dealing with injuries because I was just doing so much. It was excessive. And was it joyful? Maybe, maybe there was some joy in there. Maybe it wasn't joy. I want to say it was kind of fleeting happiness when I felt like, okay, I got that workout done. That's that made me stronger. Let's try and see if if it helped on the scale. Because I constantly felt out of control with my eating, constantly, 24-7. And so this was, in my view, the only way that I could shape shift because I was so out of control. I was eating way too much food. I had no idea how to be a peaceful eater. I was eating for every emotional reason you can think of. So there was a ton of pressure. And if I was sick or injured, like I remember one time I injured my heel from doing too many step classes. Remember step classes?

SPEAKER_02: 13:14

Oh, I love step classes.

SPEAKER_00: 13:16

I mean, I had a lot of fun while I was doing it, but if you're doing it out of, you know, desperation to look a certain way and be accepted in the world, and then of course there's the comparison. Well, look at her. Well, she did three classes this week. Well, I've I have to do more, you know, and I want to look like that, and just this constant pressure, it was an awful way to live.

SPEAKER_01: 13:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 13:41

And I mean, I very much kept movement and activity separate from my relationship with God. I thought this is not something that he's interested in. This is totally my own little domain over here. And I mean, honestly, my mom took me to the gym when I was a young teenager to work out with her. So it really started very early with pressure from my mom. And then it went into all my girlfriends, and it was, it was such a part of what we did, and a huge amount of time was spent on it. And it was just like being on a treadmill. We really never got anywhere.

SPEAKER_01: 14:20

Yeah, yeah. Here's a question kind of take going to the flip side of it. You said that activity, exercise, whatever was an area that just God stayed out of, or you thought he did. What is a kind of movement, big or small, that helps you feel his presence most clearly now? Now I know the season you're in is a little bit different because you're undergoing cancer treatments and and life is very different than it is normally for you. But if you were to feel absolutely amazing today and you wanted to connect with the Lord and move your body, what is it that you might be likely to do?

SPEAKER_00: 15:03

Yeah, I for me, I think it's walks and hikes. You know, I love, love, love walking and hiking with the Lord. Here in Colorado Springs, we have a million trails and neighborhoods and places to walk. And what I do now, which I've been doing for you know years now, which I just, oh, it's so life-giving, is I renew my mind while I walk. So I start with a prayer, I invite God in, whether I'm hiking in the hills or the mountains or a big park, or whether I'm just, you know, walking in in one of my favorite neighborhoods, or maybe in my neighborhood, I invite God in and I spend the whole time with him and renewing my mind with gratitude and oh my gosh, it at by the end of the walk, I feel emotionally and spiritually full. And my body has walked, which it loves. Um, you know, I used to do very extreme things with my body, not as extreme as you though, Heidi. You were definitely doing more extreme than me, but I used to do extreme things that were just too much, hence the injuries. But now I listen to my body and I don't do all the counting anymore. Well, how many blocks? Well, how many miles? Well, how many repetitions? I don't like to do any counting anymore. I just like to be free outside, enjoying God's beautiful creation. And when my body is done, tired, then I'm done. I go home. The other way that I love to move is really just to play. Um, one of the ways that I love to play is playing ping pong or something like that, you know, with paddles or whatever. Dad, I love doing that. My son is a wonderful ping pong player, and we have so much fun and we have these great conversations over ping pong. But I can invite God into any movement or activity. When the kids were younger, of course, we played constantly outside. We were at the park all the time, all different parks. We were throwing balls, we were kicking balls, we were, you know, playing hide and seek or whatever. I love that kind of movement because it's it's just play. It's just fun. Or playing with a dog is another one. We have a wonderful dog right now, and she is so much fun to play with at the park. So those are some of the ways. And um, the way that I know how different it is is because by the end, I'm not feeling drained, I'm not feeling exhausted, I'm not feeling pressured, and I'm not feeling like a failure, which I did for so many years. Instead, I'm feeling that deep kind of joy that I've really had a special intimate time with the Lord. Yay. That's and that's that's really, really different from anything I used to experience. I love this way of looking at movement and activity, God's way. So I'm gonna ask you the same question, Heidi. What is one kind of movement or a couple kinds, big or small, that helps you feel God's presence most clearly?

SPEAKER_01: 18:15

Well, I can tell you that I mean, I've just had so many wonderful experiences with activity over the years, but um, I think the one that has been my favorite in recent, relatively recent memory is ocean swimming when we lived on Catalina Island. Oh my goodness. You know, I love being outside where I can see wildlife. And it's funny, it never occurred to me that, you know, when you are hiking, you'll see birds and maybe squirrels and sometimes rabbits, sometimes other things too. But if you do your movement under the surface of the water in the ocean, there are thousands of creatures. Oh my gosh, it is like I don't know, it reminds me of the best adventure game in the world. It's quite an advanced, it's like I remember swimming in the ocean, snorkeling in the ocean when we lived there, and just seeing the only thing I could describe them as was rivers of fish under the water because they were in these ginormous schools, and it was like it was just amazing, it was magical. And that, oh my goodness, seeing the lobsters, the size of a man's arm that we're hiding in seriously. We have pictures of a of a guy who caught one and he has the lobster compared to the size of his arm. And I mean, they were so you have to giggle because God was really creative when he made those creatures. I mean, like the rays. Oh my gosh. And then even the plant life under the water is so amazing. Now, I don't have an ocean anywhere near me right now, so I I do go out in nature and I live in a beautiful area right now, so that's lovely. But I do look forward to someday going back to the ocean for a lovely swim where I can connect with the Lord in the water. But in the meantime, I will just keep connecting with him here.

SPEAKER_00: 20:17

Yeah. Well, and I got to come visit you several times and we got to swim in the ocean together, and that was so, so special. I will never forget those days on Candlina Island. Yeah, so, so special. So let's talk about rest a little bit more because I feel like I used to think I shouldn't be resting, I shouldn't be stopping. Don't take a break, push on, push on, push on. But really, in God's kingdom, rest has a whole new meaning. So, rest it's not the same as giving up. It's not failure, it's certainly not laziness. No way. But I I do feel like I used to believe that. I think rest is an act of obedience when the spirit says, daughter, lay this down, let me carry you, restore and breathe. Isaiah 40, 28 to 31 says, They that wait upon the Lord shall renew their strength, they shall walk and not faint. So rest is actually a place where strength is renewed. That's really important. We need to be renewed, you know, after the activity. Rest is where movement is actually prepared. In God's economy, rest produces movement, and movement produces rest.

SPEAKER_01: 21:42

Okay, so tell me, Christina, is there a time wink wink, when God invited you? No, you don't need to go and and do another whatever it might be, activity-wise, but he invited you to choose rest instead of pushing yourself.

SPEAKER_00: 21:59

Yeah. How about right now? How about this season that I'm in right now? I'm being treated for breast cancer, and it's like nothing I've ever experienced before. And God is inviting me into movement when it's time, but the movement looks a lot different than it did before. It's much more gentle and much more quiet movement. And then rest is, you know, it almost feels out of balance a little bit, but I know he's calling me to it. There's much more rest, resting hours in the day right now than active hours, very active hours. Um, so he's calling me into it, and I can I can take comfort in the fact that he's calling me to this. It's not time that's being wasted. It's not laziness. I shouldn't try to push through it because my body is working really, really hard to keep going through all this treatment. Yeah. And so it helps me to think of it this way God is inviting me to rest. A little bit of movement, gentle movement, yes. And that's important too. But yeah, this has really been a huge season of being called into God's life-giving rest.

SPEAKER_01: 23:17

Yeah. You know, it's kind of funny over the years when I was shape shifting, again with a wink wink, I lived in a place of fear. That's one of the big differences between then and now. My fear was rooted in what happens if I like if I'm sick, what happens if I if I don't do my workouts or whatever? And I would get scared of scared of what my body, you know, will I lose cardiovascular fitness? Will I lose strength? It doesn't take very long for you to lose those things that you've worked so long to gain. I mean, that's what they would always tell us. Yep. But I love being free of the fear of that. If I'm listening to God and obeying him as he invites me into rest, then anything I lose is for the glory of God. It is worship for me to obey him and to say yes to rest, which is wonderful. It doesn't mean every now and then he doesn't invite me to push myself in some way, but it's his invitation that is the key here. So for me, after my medical crisis in 2014, you know this story well, Christina. I had a totally different standard. I couldn't even walk, literally. I had lost the use of my legs because of a spinal injury. So getting back my ability to walk was first priority. I remember when I was laying in the rehab bed that I was in because I couldn't walk without assistance. I had to have both a walker and a person with me at all times. And I actually delighted in isolating muscles in my body and uh flexing them. So, like my stomach muscles, it's like I'm getting stronger even as I sit here in my bed. Now, I don't know that I didn't even think of asking God, what do you think? Do I need to take the pressure off of me? But I felt later like, you know, doing whatever I could in my bed was my way of keeping on, keeping on, and trying to prepare myself for that day when my feet would hit the floor by themselves without assistance of a walker or a person. And um, and then all through that recovery season, I remember, you know, what I called a wimpy workout. You wisely reminded me that's not a wimpy workout for this season of your life, it's a wise, wonderful workout. And I had to change my whole perspective because God was calling me into a season with much more rest and recovery. And that's the thing that we need to get in the habit of thinking of the rest goes with recovery. Um bodies need to repair after we've had um activity a lot of times, or when you go through what you're going through right now with the cancer treatments, your body needs a chance to refresh, repair, and and do all of the things that it need it needs that energy to go into recovering from the thing that's supposed to save your life. And right, right, but it's true.

SPEAKER_00: 26:30

Well, and it's not easy. I mean, there's times when I'm just like, I'm so done with this, and you know, I know I have to just continue to go back to God's thoughts. If I let myself dwell on my own thoughts, it's like, well, I should be doing more. Well, I need to do this, well, I need to meet this milestone. I mean, it's kind of the old dieting mentality, really. Yeah, it really is. And I still go back to that sometimes. Um, if my thoughts are not fixed on Christ and I'm not watching carefully what I'm thinking. Plus, you know, God made me um a girl that likes to go. You know, he made me that way. I'm not a person that, you know, likes to just be at home all day for days on end. That that's not me. I like to be out there, I like to be with people, I like to be active. And so he's calling me to something that feels hard a lot of the time. But we're doing it.

SPEAKER_02: 27:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 27:27

And we'll we'll get through it. But it's it helps me more than anything to think of God's view on rest and activity. Yeah. And then I can let go, like you said, of those old beliefs, those fears. It's like, no, I'm just gonna do it this God's way. What is God calling me to until we get to the other side of this? And then things will change again. That sounds wise. Oh, hard though, but yeah. Diet culture says, move your body so it can change. Go, move, do more, you know, make it hurt, that kind of thing. Yeah, but Jesus says, Move your body because I love you.

SPEAKER_01: 28:12

And sometimes he says, Rest your body because I love you.

SPEAKER_00: 28:16

Yes, and isn't that just a huge shift? And when I think, okay, Lord, you made my body, it's the only body like it in the whole wide world. You made my body. I need to be listening to you, and it feels good to listen to him. It that feels like peace. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 28:37

And you know, we're all different. So, like for me, after I came out of a seven-hour back surgery and had to learn how to walk again and all of that, God wasn't calling me to do a workout video, not the same guy anyway. He might be asking me to tense my muscles as I lay in bed recovering. But not everybody has the physical ability to do whatever it is their neighbor does or their best friend does or their whoever the people at work do. So God is going to invite us to do what we are able to do, not what beats us down and makes us feel like failures, because there is no condemnation in Christ. If we feel condemnation, it's not because he's invited us to something that's making us feel that way.

SPEAKER_02: 29:27

Right.

SPEAKER_01: 29:28

You know, the world definitely ties movement to our worth. Yeah. But Jesus ties movement to worship or rest to worship. It's like, do what I'm inviting you to, daughter or son. The world ties movement to outcomes. If you do this, then you're gonna look like this. But Jesus ties movement to freedom. How very often we trade what could be our freedom for really slavery, and we call it good health. It's so tricky because you know, we want to walk the line God has for us, and really his boundaries have fallen for us in pleasant places. Yes, John 15 5 reminds us that apart from me, Jesus says, you can do nothing. And this includes God honoring movement and God honoring rest. Our strength is not going to be self-generated, right? It is spirit given, Holy Spirit given. And I think we really want to be sure to drive this point home. Our movement is not about achieving a shape or a look, it's about yet again receiving his grace. God, thank you that you've given me the ability to move my body in whatever way each person is able to move their body. Thank you that I can be outside, or thank you that I can see. Thank you that I have hands that can move their the fingers, and thank you that I have strong arms if you do. Thank you that I have my ability to walk. I took for granted the ability to walk until it came to a screeching halt in 2014. I tell you what, that was life changing.

SPEAKER_00: 31:03

Heidi, you were so brave. You were so Brave. I was just getting to know you at the time. We were new friends, you know, and you were my coach. And um, I was just getting to know you. But remember how every time there was just the littlest thing, which was a big thing at the time, that you did post-surgery, we called it a first and we celebrated and we wrote it on a list and we talked about firsts all the time. That was that was just such a beautiful way to look at the movement that you were doing, which was incredibly brave and you were in so much pain at the time. I'll I'll never forget it. It was incredibly inspiring to me.

SPEAKER_01: 31:47

Oh thank you. I'm so glad that I had your support during that time.

SPEAKER_00: 31:52

I'm so glad that God put us together just before that happened. Oh my goodness. Just I think two months before that all happened. Okay, so let's talk a little bit about neuroscience, which is really, really fun to just kind of see how it all comes together. Just like with mind renewal, that we've talked about a a hundred million times, and also spirit-led eating, God's design for movement is amazing. Movement actually releases chemicals in the brain. Whoa. And those chemicals cause us to be calm, to have clarity, to regulate our emotions. Sign me up for that one. Yeah, no kidding. How about stress relief? Oh my goodness. I know so many people that are so stressed right now. And it brings joy, not just kind of fleeting surface happiness, but really, really God honoring, God producing, spirit-led joy. It's it's so, so beautiful.

SPEAKER_01: 32:59

And it's cool that these are God-built systems in our body meant for our flourishing. When we move in a spirit-led instead of Heidi-led or whoever led way, we activate the nervous systems, peace pathways. I am so grateful God made us the way He did. And when we rest when needed, we activate healing and repair, like we were talking about. You and I and everybody listening, we were not created for nonstop output. We were created for spirit-paced living. That's Holy Spirit-paced living. Yeah. So, what do you think?

SPEAKER_00: 33:38

That's so, so good. Oh, I just it's like it takes this huge weight off my shoulders. It's like, okay, that feels really good to know. God designed my brain and body to be changed by joyful movement and gentle rhythms. That sounds totally doable, no matter what season I'm in.

SPEAKER_01: 34:00

It sounds like a God thing. It's something He would create. When I start creating my plans or whatever, I don't go there very well. I I definitely create too much stress on my body and don't rest enough and blah, blah, blah.

SPEAKER_00: 34:16

He had a plan for this, and it's a beautiful plan for us to be able to enjoy our bodies. Now, I mean, many of you who are listening might be thinking, well, I'm not really enjoying my body right now because I'm my foot hurts and my, you know, elbow and I've got this. And my hip. And I had, you know, surgery three months ago and I'm not recovered, or I can release or all of that. You know, there's so many things that we go through because we live in this very, very imperfect world. Can't wait to have my heavenly body someday. Very much looking forward to that. But, you know, we do we do have to deal with a lot of challenges with our bodies here on earth, especially as we get older. It just is. It just happens for most of us, for many of us. But what I love is that God has a plan for that. He's not just like, well, you know, things were better when you were young, but sorry about that. You know, now that you're older, you're gonna fall apart. I mean, he has plans for us that are gentle and loving and wise, and so that we can enter into a different season of movement and rest, and we're gonna be fine. We're gonna be fine with the Lord.

SPEAKER_01: 35:32

And what is so beautiful is really movement becomes joyful when it's done at the pace God establishes for me, not according to somebody else's pace. I mean, I've had trainers at gyms before telling me I need to do this and this and this and this, and it just becomes slavery again. And I've created my own plans that were slavery to me. And I also feel like movement is gonna be more joyful when it's done with an awareness of God, not the pressure that I get when I fill out a log that tells me how many. I mean, I don't know. I used to do that all the time. Have these logs for reps and weights and distances, and oh, and it was just it was almost like I took pride in being, I don't know, chained to that log and what was in it. Also, there's more joy in moving when I do it with gratitude, not comparing myself to somebody else. Well, look at her abs, those are amazing. I can't find my abs anymore. I keep them carefully guarded and protected under me. There you go. Yeah, definitely. And and movement is also joyful when it's done with freedom instead of rules. And this this is embodiment, it's living in our body with God, not apart from him. You know, these little boundaries we and big boundaries that we think he's not interested in this area, so I'm not gonna invite him in. No, we want to live in our bodies with God, not apart from him.

SPEAKER_00: 37:06

Yes. Uh, that sounds so good, Heidi. I love what you just shared. That sounds so, so good. And of course, that whole checking off the boxes thing. I mean, I did that for years. It was not sustainable. I couldn't even get a weekend before something happened and I wasn't able to, you know, check that box or check oh, the pressure of it. I'm so grateful not to be living that way anymore. So grateful. So we we want to take away today um the fact that movement is worship and rest is also worship. I want to listen for the spirit's invitation. Whether it is to move, stretch, walk, rest. I want to follow him with joy. I want to walk in his wisdom, not my own. And all the pieces. Yeah, it feels so good. That's where peace is.

SPEAKER_01: 38:02

It does. Oh, well, this was fun.

SPEAKER_00: 38:05

Yeah, we are so glad that you've been here today. And we would love to invite you to our next episode of Revelation Within.