SPEAKER_00: 0:01

Hi, and welcome to our podcast, Revelation Within on the Go. I'm Heidi Files Epherson, one of your hosts, and the owner and lead coach of the RevelationWithin.org Ministry.

SPEAKER_02: 0:13

And I'm Christina Motley, your other host, also a Revelation Within coach, and Heidi's partner in all things Revelation Within. And we're so happy to invite you to join us for this episode. Revelation Within!

SPEAKER_00: 0:39

All right, well, we're gonna start off with a bang here because before we get serious, Christina, I feel like I need to start with something absolutely ridiculous.

SPEAKER_02: 0:49

Absolutely ridiculous, ridiculous.

SPEAKER_00: 0:51

Okay, let's start that call ridiculous, ridiculous. What has been the most I am totally 100% human moment for you lately? Okay, well, I think I'm gonna have to tell the story of the love soup.

SPEAKER_02: 1:08

Love soup. Love soup. I know it sounds, I don't know what it sounds like, but I'll tell you, I'll try to tell you in a nutshell. This happened just last night. So it's very fresh. It's very fresh. We have a gentleman at church, actually, a couple, and they are wonderful, and they're older and sweet and kind. This gentleman has cared so beautifully for his um bride, who has a lot of health challenges and physical disabilities. And I have watched him care for her for years and years. He is just one of the sweetest, kindest gentlemen I've ever met in my life. So last night he came to my door. Um, she stayed in the car. I love her too. Um, but it was painfully cold outside. And so she stayed in the car and he came to the door with this beautifully organized and put-together box of a dinner for our family. And our church has been amazing. We have been receiving dinners for the last six months almost weekly from all of the small groups because of my breast cancer diagnosis and treatment. It has been amazing. Anyway, here he is. He comes to the door. He has this beautiful meal that's ready to basically ready to heat up and eat right then. And I give him a big hug and say thank you, and he goes off on his merry way. Well, part the main part of the meal was this amazing soup. And, you know, right now I've got some, you know, issues with certain food groups and things and restrict, not restrictions, but sensitivities is the word I'm trying to say. And so everything was arranged for that. Like it was all done perfectly for me, which just was so incredibly sweet. And so I put the soup on the stove and I'm arranging the other things. And my husband won't be home for a little while. My daughters will be home soon from work. And I just I thought, I'm just gonna taste it. It looks so good, this soup. And it was kind of this golden creamy color. And um, I took a few bites and it was not even warm yet. And I was like, oh my gosh! Oh, oh, it's so good. Uh, it's so delicious. I know, right? And then as it got warmer, I thought, well, I'm just gonna try it again. I was all by myself in the house, and I had a little more and a little more and a little more and a little more. Pretty soon my daughter comes home and I said, I have this beautiful dinner, and she goes upstairs to change. She likes to get all cozy comfy when she gets home. I have a little more while she's gone. And then she comes down the stairs, and I'm like, Oh, you're gonna love this soup. It's amazing. And we sit down and have these little small portions of soup, and she says, Yeah, it's really good. Thanks, mom, goes back upstairs, and I have more, and I have a little more. I mean, what am I doing? I'm not thinking, I'm not like present with myself. I've just got the soup. And anyway, so then my husband comes home and I'm like, I've got this amazing soup. It's heated up for you. And there's also other parts to the meal. There's a salad, there's bread, there's other things. And so he sits down to eat and I have some more with him. And then he says, This is so good. Is there any more? No, because I ate it all. And I was so full, and I haven't felt full like that in a really long time. And I realized, I mean, this is a creamy soup, but it's made with coconut cream. Anyway, later, later, later, I had some time to talk to the Lord about the soup. And I was like, oh my gosh, Lord, what was that about? What was that about? Will you help me, Lord? And this is what we call look and learn at Revelation within. And right away, the words love soup came to mind. What was I eating? What was I longing for? What was I doing when I was eating that soup? I was eating love. Basically, we always need more of that. Yes, and this gentleman, I have watched him, like I said, love on his wife for so many years. And I have a wonderful husband as well. But there was something about the way the meal was prepared. It was just so beautifully done, just for me, really. And I just I was eating, I was eating love, and I was eating comfort. Um, and I've been struggling with some some grieving and some difficult things. And it was it, I thought in the moment, I didn't really think actually, I just did it. In the moment, it felt like I was sipping love and comfort, and I just wanted more and more.

SPEAKER_00: 6:34

Yeah. And I know that's something that you've shared before that that when somebody makes a meal for you, that's when you have to really be discerning about okay, because it's it is, it's like drinking or eating or uh enjoying uh the love that they've poured out on you. It's weird how something like that can like soup, really.

SPEAKER_02: 6:58

I mean, soup. It wasn't like this big fancy meal, it was just soup. But I don't know. I mean, the pull toward it was incredibly strong. Obviously, I had not gone to God for the comfort I needed. I was like empty on comfort. That doesn't that doesn't mean anyone else was doing anything wrong at all. Right, right. My family loves me so well, but yeah, the comfort that I needed was what only God could give. And then I was obviously my tank was empty on that kind of deep comfort, you know?

SPEAKER_00: 7:37

Yeah, well, and let's let's go ahead and and continue with a real honest conversation. Is there anything lately that you are tired of pretending isn't hard? You've got a lot of hard things.

SPEAKER_02: 7:52

Yeah, you know what? I have been through six months of really intensive, really horrible, challenging chemo treatment, and my I'm on the other side of it. And it's been a little over a month, I think, since the last infusion, maybe five weeks. And so, yeah, there is a very big part of me, and now I'm getting teary, which means definitely this question is hitting my heart. But I feel like I should be done. I should I feel like I should be, you know, right as rain. I should be able to do everything I did before, I should be able to serve others again, I should be able to be kind of quote unquote normal. And it's when I think about it, it's so soon. I mean, six months that my body went through that. And it's only been five weeks since the last infusion and three weeks of that was recovering from the infusion. I mean, I'm still recovering, it's gonna take a really long time. And so, yeah, I think there has been a part of me, without even realizing it, that is like really kind of white knuckling, you know, kind of like, I'm okay, I'm okay, I'm okay now. I want when when somebody says to me, oh, I'm just checking in after, you know, a few weeks or whatever, how are you doing? I want to say I'm fine. I want to say I'm absolutely fine, I'm doing great, I'm feeling better and better every day. And there is truth to that. There is. I am getting better every day most days, but I know I've been overdoing it. And I know now, after you asking me that question, and that just came right up. Like my heart was like, oh my gosh, I have been pretending everything's okay now.

SPEAKER_00: 9:58

Well, and and beyond what you have been through and are going through as you're recovering from such extreme treatment to kill the cancer in your body, you aren't done. You're done with chemo, yes, but you're still on immunotherapy. Yeah, and you have some things coming up here real soon. And I'm sure that that is hard too. Do you want to talk about that at all? I do.

SPEAKER_02: 10:23

I have surgery coming up next week, and then um a few weeks off, quote unquote, with immunotherapy, like you said, and then quite a few weeks of radiation. I don't know how many yet, but quite a few. Um and so really all of this won't be kind of finished, or at least you know, that's kind of where the finish line is right now until summer. It's going to be an entire year of a process, and it might even be longer than that, depending on how things go. I I don't really know, of course, we don't really know, but that's the plan that the doctors came up with. So, yeah, I think that I thought, you know what, I'm gonna get past this really, really, really, really, really hard part, and I'll be able to breathe again. And that is true. But it's I just I really want the whole thing to be over.

SPEAKER_00: 11:23

Yeah, I want it over too, just so you know.

SPEAKER_02: 11:26

I know you do. And you know, Heidi has just been amazing praying me through every day of this, and you know, she's my prayer partner, um, extraordinaire. So she's been praying for me uh for almost 12 years. Um just just for the record, she asked me so to be her prayer partner, but she had no idea what she was getting into. No, I really no, I'm kidding. Anyway, I'm so grateful for you, Heidi.

SPEAKER_00: 11:59

I really am so grateful for you. As I am for you. The one amazing thing that came out of 2014's health crisis was you, as my ministry partner, my best friend, my partner in uh prayer and um all kinds of things. So um when I when I think of that season, and I do sometimes with bitterness, if I can be quite frank, I think of you, God gave you to me during that time and has ever since, and that trade is worth it. Absolutely worth it.

SPEAKER_02: 12:36

Wow, yeah. It's yeah, so yes, that question hit me pretty hard right this moment. Um, it's hard, you know, it's hard not to not to pretend sometimes. In the moment, it feels better sometimes to pretend. But then what happens? I become a person that needs comfort, and somebody brings me soup, and I practically the whole thing, and I call it love soup. And this is why this is exactly why. When we pretend and we say, I've got this, and I'll just try harder, and we put so much pressure on ourselves, and then what do we need? So much comfort. We need we need spoonful after spoonful until the whole pot is gone, and then we're miserable because our stomach is too full. And I don't know if anybody out there can relate.

SPEAKER_00: 13:36

Maybe not to the spoop part, but I bet they can relate. We can all relate to to the the idea of getting comfort from food for whatever reason, you bet.

SPEAKER_02: 13:46

Yeah. So what about you, Heidi? What's been hard in your real life?

SPEAKER_00: 15:01

Um well, I just think cancer sucks. It really does. Everybody that I love, and everybody else too. They all need to stop having cancer. Yeah. I think the hard road is yet ahead for us, my husband and myself. Next week, he goes in to talk to his medical team about having his prostate removed on the 4th of February. This is being recorded um before that, of course. And I just I just need it to not happen. I need it to all go away magically. So that's really hard. And you know, there are moments kind of like your soup incident that show me enough about myself that I realize, okay, I'm not processing things as they come up. Um, I did a Facebook Live yesterday, and perhaps those listening know about that. It was the first time I'd been on Facebook in probably, I mean, on Facebook Live specifically, um, in over four years. I think the last time I did any lives on Facebook for the ministry or whatever it was for our um Satisfaction for the Hungry Heart Summit, where I interviewed all kinds of wonderful people about how we can experience deep satisfaction and joy in Christ, ironically enough, anyway. And um, so yesterday when I did this live, it was something I had not wanted to do for a really long time. And to be honest with you, the only reason why I did it was I'm sure God wanted me to. I I sensed his pleasure in me taking that step of faith was because I paid a lot for a coaching program to coach me to make the ministry better. Yeah, and in fact, two different programs to help me make the ministry more effective, reach more people, and hopefully bring in a little bit of an income so that I can contribute to the family coffers. Well, after the Facebook Live was over and it was on the topic of emotional eating and Jesus' ability to meet us in that place, I found solace in the freezer. I cannot believe it. But I did. I ran to the freezer, had the last bit of some wonderful ice cream in there and cookies. It was only half a cookie, but it was a big cookie, and and ate that and shut down for the rest of the day. That's my human moment, very human. And what is that about? And I think it was about the fact that I felt so exposed. Um, I told a couple of stories, and although they're humorous on the one hand, they're very real. Yeah, they're very real, real. And and you know, about frosting in a spoon in the bathroom, and uh, another one about retrieving a cake that I had thrown away. And anyway, all of that was putting myself out there again. And you know what, to be honest with you, the last five years, four or five years, have not been very gentle in my life, and I feel like I've aged a lot, and that's one of the reasons why I haven't wanted to do anything live or even video teaching at all, is because like our podcasts, uh, they say that people like podcasts that offer a video version. I don't want to do that for several reasons, not the least of which is I feel right now I have a face for radio. Yeah, I mean I'm just being real. I'm being real here. Yeah, so um, yeah, I can tell I'm not processing things as they come up because when something hard happens, there's old behaviors that surface, and um yeah, it just it's disappointing. It's really disappointing. So anyway, and the truth is relative to the ministry, that's something I struggle with in an ongoing way, whether it's spiritual warfare, I'm sure is very real. Um, I believe that it is, and I believe our message is unique and true and rich with the gospel, and Jesus died for this message, not our message, but the truth of it. Yes, and and I think the enemy hates that. He hates that it's a life-giving, peace-granting, life-sustaining message. And so I know I'm probably getting kicked in the shins a little bit, um, quite a bit. So, anyway, those are a number of my very real, I'm very human uh moments, stories.

SPEAKER_02: 20:00

Heidi, I remember when um you asked me to work with you, and you know, we started out. I mean, I was totally the coachy, and I was, you know, the one doing all the learning for quite a while. Um, and you were teaching me and walking with me and sharing with me. But I remember when you asked me to first kind of start helping you in the groups. Um, and we had these these groups on the phone at the time, and um, there was no such thing as Zoom, you know, that all came later. We were on these these phone calls with all these women, and everybody got a turn. And actually, it it worked really, really well. It really did. And we we had a great time, and you asked me to kind of help coach in the groups, and that was my first experience doing anything like that. And I loved it, but I was very shy and timid at first. Um and I was for quite a while, and I thought, I'm gonna say something wrong, and you know, this is gonna be this is gonna be really. Weird and different, and I'm still on the journey. I'm still dealing with stuff. But then you would share something so vulnerably and so you know, with so much transparency. And my first thought was, oh no, like, don't share that. Like, I wanted to protect you. I want to be protected. Remember that? Oh, yeah. And I just was this kind of um not mama bear because you were really the mama bear. Um, I was more like, you know, the the little sister bear. Um, but anyway, I've this strong um feeling came up in me, you know, don't don't share too vulnerably. You know, somebody's gonna say something or you're gonna get hurt or you're gonna get judged. And then over time I realized how valuable that was and how much it touched people's hearts when you shared vulnerably. I mean, I didn't get it. I didn't get it at all at first. I thought there's certain things that we should just keep, keep quiet or keep to ourselves because that's too vulnerable. That's too scary to mention that or share that. But then I realized that, yeah, these women, they needed to hear that from somebody. They needed to hear, and honestly, I needed to hear it from you too. Um, and that was part of the reason that our coaching experience, you coaching me, was was so great, was so amazing, was so effective because you you opened yourself up right away, even in our very first calls, you were very vulnerable with me. And I really appreciated that. And I appreciate it so much more now understanding what it was about.

SPEAKER_00: 22:57

Oh, thanks for sharing that. I know that for me, it's like I would love to be able to hide what is true and do so successfully. But like I just shared about after that Facebook Live kind of having a run-in with the freezer and and all it that's what ends up happening with me. If I'm not processing things and being honest with who I am, and I believe God's called me to that. He doesn't call everybody to that kind of authenticity, but right, right. I think when it comes to being in this area of food shame and body image shame and all of that, I think I think God does use that. I don't get it. I feel like a talking donkey much of the time, but God used a talking donkey in a very significant way in the scriptures. And and if he wants me to be a talking donkey, okay. But um, yeah, it's interesting. I remember feeling that from you that there was that protectiveness. And sometimes it still shows up, but it does. Yeah. So I you have come to a point where I think you trust you trust me, and I think you trust God with the whole thing. Yes. You know, as we've been talking about this, one of the things I'm wondering is about the women who might still be listening. Yeah, well, we've been hearing a lot of the same themes.

SPEAKER_02: 24:12

Themes like I feel shame around the mirror or in front of the mirror or in my reflection. We've been hearing a lot about nighttime eating and shame around that, and frustration, and a lot of weariness, a lot. I mean, the women that we get to interact with, have the privilege of interacting with, yeah, have a lot of big, big trials going on. Um, we all do, right? We've also been hearing a lot of this. I should be further along. Why is this taking so long? I've been on this journey a long time.

SPEAKER_00: 24:52

We had a Zoom meeting this week where somebody said I should be further along, and I stopped everything and said, How many of you have felt this way? And everybody raised both hands. Everybody raised both hands.

SPEAKER_02: 25:04

Yeah. We're also seeing a theme of being hard on yourself. You know, we're all feeling a lot of pressure, I think, um, for a lot of reasons. Personal reasons, family reasons, you know, things about work, things about worth, and then things happening in the world. Um, and also a lot of loneliness. I think that we see that in the women that we serve as well, and in some of them. And then also trying to seek God, but feeling really distracted, feeling pulled in so many different directions, wearing a lot of hats, dealing with a lot of roles in their lives, and wondering, you know, how can I keep focused on God when I have so much going on, so much to do. I don't even have time to go to the bathroom. You know, it seems like that's these are some of the themes that are coming up for a lot of a lot of our ladies. And you know what? When you think about those topics that I just mentioned, those themes, uh, does anyone preach sermons about those? No, nobody's out there preaching sermons about those, but that's where we're living. Those are the needs that we have, and there's plenty more as well.

SPEAKER_00: 26:19

You know, and and really, when you think about it, the crazy thing is Jesus meets us in those places. Yes, he meets us in that feeling of loneliness, that being hard on ourselves. Yeah, he meets us when we feel like, oh my gosh, can't I deal with this better? You know, so Jesus meets us there in the slip slides, stumbles, falls, failures, not in the perfect places. I mean, he's there too, but he's not waiting for us to get to a place where we think, ta-da, I've arrived. And not in the curated places, like sifting through my life and saying, Well, these are Jesus moments. No, they're all Jesus moments. Jesus meets us anywhere we might be. That's the bottom line.

SPEAKER_02: 27:01

Well, and this is this is such a beautiful truth. Jesus never says, Come to me when you're impressive, come to me when you've got it all together, you know. Come to me when you have figured things out, pulled yourself up, sucked it up. He doesn't say that. He says, Come to me when you're weary. Weary. And that that word for me holds so much more meaning than tired, you know? Yeah, tired feels like, okay, I'm gonna take a nap. Weariness is like your soul, your mind, your heart, and your body, like all of it. You're just weary, you're just that's this complete exhaustion type thing. And I know a lot of us can relate to that right now a lot.

SPEAKER_00: 27:55

And one of my favorite scriptures, and we refer to it quite a bit, is Matthew 11, 28, where Jesus extends an invitation. And that's one of the things I love about our God is he's an inviting God. He doesn't drive us where he wants us to go, invites us. Yes, come to me, all who are weary and heavy laden, and I will give you rest. And it goes on to his invitation, including rest for your soul. He doesn't demand better, he promises rest.

SPEAKER_02: 28:27

Wow, I mean, I love that. I love it too, and it's it's all over his word, it's not like he just says it once, he talks about it a lot, and rest, it's not the same thing as fixing, which I think sometimes we get confused on that. I know I do. Rest isn't the same as fixing, rest is letting God be God again, letting God be God again.

SPEAKER_00: 28:54

Yeah, wonderful.

SPEAKER_02: 28:58

So, okay, let's not only talk about what's hard. I'm bad. We can talk about something else now. Let's talk about what's been good and even the small good counts.

SPEAKER_00: 29:14

I live above the fog line. La la la la la la. No, this is huge because in the Sacramento area, there is fog for probably 95% of the days of the winter. It's fog. And it's just hot. Yeah. It is. It hovers over the valley, the Sacramento Valley. And depending upon where you live and what elevation you're at on any given day, you can go up into the foothills and either be in the middle of it or be slightly above it. And we moved not that long ago, really. This has been our first winter in this home. And I see the valley covered with fog. It is so awesome. I don't like fog. I don't like gray skies. And these are like gray skies. Even as a child, when I lived in the Sacramento Valley, I could not stand the gray, gray, gray day in, gray day out, gray, gray, gray, gray, gray. Yeah, it is a lot of gray. And now it's down yonder in the pawpaw patch. I'm up here on Husky Hill, and I absolutely love it. Husky is awesome. Yes, I love it. Love it. I have I love my dog, I love my husband, I love all the deer. Every day we have a deer parade and a turkey parade. I kid you not. It's every day they come marching through, and sometimes they come running through, depending upon what's going on or what season it is. Anyway, it is I love, love, love it. And I love the women in our class, and I love every day that I can start the day with a class or midday with a class and see my home girls. I just love, love, love it, and I love business.

SPEAKER_02: 31:01

Yeah, I mean too, me too. I love that so much. And I love that for you, Heidi. I love that. I can't wait to come and see in person because I haven't been at your new house yet. Yeah, so one of the biggest things, maybe it is all well, it's one of the biggest things that I am just so much enjoying right now is that through this very difficult season, God has done, I want to say, I'm like imagining sparkles. God has like put sparkles all over the relationships in my family. Um, and I have seen things in my family members, my husband and my three kids, and also you know, some extended families, certainly, and friends, and but I have seen this sparkle in our relationships that only comes from going through something hard. Now I'm gonna cry again. I know, but stop it. Oh, sorry, sorry. Um, it has been so beautiful and so amazing. That's one of my prayers for you and Michael, Heidi, is that you guys will experience those sparkles. That'd be lovely to have a sparkly marriage. Yes. What did you say? I said it'd be lovely to have a sparkly marriage. I know. Well, and David and I have been married for 31, almost 31 years. Um, and so that's that's a long time. And you would think that if there were any sparkles to be seen, I would have already seen them.

unknown: 32:38

Okay.

SPEAKER_02: 32:39

But we have had a whole new category of sparkles.

SPEAKER_00: 32:46

Only you could could talk about sparkles like this.

SPEAKER_02: 32:50

Well, like, you know, if there's if you go to the store and you, you know, you want to get some sparkles, which of course there's no store like that. But you know, and there's like all these different kinds. We are now in a whole new category of sparkles, and I'm seeing that with all of my kids as well. And it doesn't, it looks different with each kid, it looks different with each relationship, and it's really quite amazing. And that's that's from God. There is nobody else could that could do that. All of that is from God. I'm not saying it's been perfect, I'm not saying we haven't had our moments, but overall, wow, there are sparkles in my relationships. That also has to do with, you know, uh people that I know through coaching and revelation within. And of course, you, Heidi, and other dear friends, and all kinds, it's like, wow, Lord, you have done a mighty work that I never ever expected. Um, and we really we have had to kind of circle the wagons, you know, we've had to kind of pull it in so that I wouldn't get sick from anybody and that kind of thing. And emotionally, you kind of have to do that when you go through something so hard. But it has not felt that way. It has felt like relationships have really deepened. And like I said, the sparkles, it's it's beautiful, and I'm so grateful, so grateful. And I love that. And I love that we're living here in Colorado Springs, in this house that we have lived in for so many years. I love that we're here while this is happening. Um, and I love that Pike's Peak is right in front of me practically, and I can see it every day and be reminded of God's goodness and gratefulness. And I love that we have Garden of the Gods, where I go as often, maybe two, three times a week, to be reminded of God's faithfulness and how big and majestic and beautiful and creative He is. And I love that we live on a street where we have neighbors that ask almost daily how I'm doing. It's just been amazing.

SPEAKER_00: 35:00

Yeah, it's really wonderful how I mean, sometimes the good seems small or even mundane. It's like we see the goodness in the trees outside our window or the mountains that surround us. Uh, rather than I conquered my life, I remember, I'm I mean, it's more simple than that.

SPEAKER_02: 35:20

So very often. Yeah, it's those little moments. And and you know what? Maybe that's that's the point. The kingdom is mustard seeds, tiny, quiet, slow, real. That's kind of where the the sparkles happen. It's those quieter times when you think, oh, this is just hard, nothing really is happening. We're we're not moving forward. It's a time of waiting. It's it's quiet, it's waiting, you know. But really, that's where God, I think it seems like does his best work.

SPEAKER_00: 35:58

And so very often the transformation we long for seems like it's invisible while it's happening, while it's developing, while it's in the slow cooker. The slow cooker, that's right. You might only see it looking backwards as something else.

SPEAKER_02: 36:15

Yeah, that's exactly it. It's the crock pot. It takes time and it simmers, and you'd think this will never be done.

SPEAKER_00: 36:28

Yeah. And if you're listening and you're in a season where it feels hard or slow, or you're tired, we're tired of being tired. Yeah. Just know. Know that you know that you know you're not broken and you're not behind, and you're not wrong, you're not in a place where you need to fix something, you're just human. And guess what? Jesus loves humans. He does for humans.

SPEAKER_02: 36:56

Oh, and Jesus doesn't shame weakness, He meets it, He actually meets it.

SPEAKER_00: 37:05

Yay! We're really glad you're here at the table with us this morning. And if you feel like sharing, I want to give you a chance to do that. We'd love to hear what's been hard for you, what's been good, and where you're seeing God in the middle of both. You can reach out to us and uh either Christina or myself or come to Mighty Networks and at RevWithin.team. But uh Christina and I both have email addresses at revelationwithin.org, just Heidi at and Christina at revelationwithin.org. We would love to hear the hard, the good, the the way Jesus has been meeting you. Please share that with us.

SPEAKER_02: 37:44

We would love to hear from you. Um, and next time we're gonna talk about why we're all so hard on ourselves. That's not the way we did, and what Jesus has to say about that voice inside our heads.

SPEAKER_00: 38:01

You are beloved, you're not behind, and you don't have to hurry to heal.

SPEAKER_02: 38:06

Nope, nope, nope.

SPEAKER_00: 38:07

That's the truth.

SPEAKER_02: 38:08

That's the truth. And we are so glad that you've been here at the table with us, around the kitchen table. Um, and we would love to invite you to come to our next podcast of Revelation within.