SPEAKER_02 0:02

Hi, and welcome to Revelation Within on the Go. I'm Heidi Bilesma-Epherson, one of your hosts, and the owner and lead coach of RevelationWithin.org.

SPEAKER_01 0:13

And I'm Christina Motley, your other host, also a Revelation Within coach, and Heidi's partner in all things Revelation Within. We're so happy to invite you to join us for this episode of Revelation Within.

SPEAKER_02 0:35

Oh goodness sake. I'm so glad you're here. Well, at Revelation Within, we love to support women as they untangle food struggles, body shame, and exhausting self-talk. Not through more rules, no, no, no, no. But through mind renewal, identity in Christ, and yes, learning to live from peace instead of pressure.

Rethinking Cravings As Messages

SPEAKER_01 1:01

Doesn't that sound good? Sounds so good. I think I'll stick around for this podcast. Yay!

SPEAKER_02 1:08

And today we're gonna talk about cravings. Oh, cravings. But it might be a little different than you've heard before. Not how to conquer them, not how to eliminate cravings, not even how to override cravings. Okay. Instead, we're asking a different question completely. Yes. And here it is. What if? Here's another what if question. Yeah. What if your craving is carrying a message?

SPEAKER_01 1:40

Oh, that's such a good question, Heidi, because you know what? So many women feel ashamed of cravings. Yep. Ashamed of emotional eating, ashamed of wanting comfort, ashamed of turning to food when they're overwhelmed. I could go on and on and on because I have felt all of those things. But what if instead of shaming the craving, we actually listened? Oh my goodness. What if we listened?

SPEAKER_02 2:13

And we're going to be doing a lot of that in March in our community. So visiting revelationwithin.org and seeing what's on that page will tell you all about March, even though you might be hearing this halfway through March. It's still a good visit. We would love to have you join us. Most of us were taught uh over the years that cravings are enemies, flat out enemies. That's true. Bring out the battalion. We've got to shoot them down. That they are a weakness. They reflect lack of discipline. It's a failure of willpower. But what if, what if cravings are not our enemies? What if instead they're signals? What if they're invitations? Wow. What if we took on the perspective of compassionate curiosity? What if our cravings are saying, hmm, something needs attention here?

SPEAKER_01 3:12

Did you just say that cravings are not our enemies? Yeah. Wow. That's um a whole shift in thinking for at least it was for me when we started talking about this. Because you know what? The body does not speak English or any certain language. The body speaks sensation. It speaks desire, right? It speaks hunger, not just physical hunger, but emotional and spiritual hunger. What am I hungry for? What's going on?

Why Shame Intensifies Cravings

SPEAKER_02 3:47

Yeah, I had a night this last week where I had this agitation rising up inside of me. I'd already eaten dinner, plenty of dinner. I was not hungry. Sat down uh in the living room, and it occurred to me to ask, God, what is this about? And I asked for a while, yeah, and that's all the story I'm gonna tell you. All right, all right. So, why shame never heals cravings? That's an important thing to consider because shame is where we go. Shame is so let's start here though. Shame has never, and nor will it ever, no, not ever, eliminate cravings. Shame does not eliminate cravings. In fact, you know, check and see if this isn't true to you. It intensifies them. I mean, when I think about over the course of my life and the years and years I've struggled with food and eating and how I treat myself and think about myself, so very often when I slip, stumbled, slid, or failed, or fell, or whatever, I would shame myself. And all I then would want is comfort. Right. And and what was my go-to? It was usually more of the same behavior. Right. So, really, shame does not eliminate cravings, it intensifies them. And so, if you or I label ourselves as bad just for wanting something or thinking of something, our nervous system, there it is again, it goes with us everywhere we go. It feels threatened. And we know that God has made us fearfully and wonderfully, He's made our nervous system fearfully and wonderfully. So when our nervous system feels threatened, it's going to seek regulation. Often, food has become our most reliable regulator. Yeah. Ooh, that's a lot.

SPEAKER_01 5:45

That's so true, Heidi. That is so true. When we shame the craving, what are we actually doing? We're actually increasing the stress, which increases the craving. It's a cycle. Yeah, it's not because you're broken, it's not because I'm broken, it's because our bodies are trying to help us. Our bodies are trying to help us. Whoa.

SPEAKER_02 6:12

That's a nice thought.

SPEAKER_01 6:13

Yeah. So when you're overwhelmed, lonely, tired, overstimulated, how about emotionally flooded?

SPEAKER_02 6:21

I call it all of the above going on right now.

SPEAKER_01 6:24

Can you help me? I think you do. I think you do. You know, I call it an emotional pileup. It's like a traffic jam. Um, I was feeling that yesterday. Um, I had an emotional pile up. It's like, it's too much. I can't handle it. Yeah. So what happens? Your nervous system shifts into survival mode, protection mode. Let me help you, Christina. I know that you're on overload here. Let me help.

SPEAKER_00 6:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:55

And in survival mode, your brain, my brain wants quick relief, right? Okay, let's let's what how can we help right now? Quick relief, quick energy, quick comfort, quick dopamine.

SPEAKER_02 7:11

Yep.

Survival Mode And Quick Comfort

SPEAKER_01 7:12

And food is accessible. It's immediate, it's predictable, it's right in front of us, it's everywhere we go, it's right there. And so we grab for it.

SPEAKER_02 7:24

You know what's interesting is when we go into that state of the nervous system, which is also called sympathetic, our logic brains, those brains of ours that have wonderful desires to honor our bodies with just the right amounts of foods and foods that make us feel energized and strong. That brain goes offline. The logic brain goes offline, and all I know is survivor. I must survive. And that means quick relief, quick energy, quick comfort, quick dopamine, yeah, immediate help. Yeah, and that's really important.

SPEAKER_01 7:56

I mean, I can so relate to that, and I bet our listeners can relate to that.

SPEAKER_02 8:01

Uh, yeah. And there's really nothing sinful about wanting relief. No, of course not. Thinking about it from the perspective of the fact that God designed you and me with a nervous system that seeks safety. I mean, that can be a matter of survival at times. And the question isn't, what is wrong with me? Why do I have this craving? No, but the question is instead, what do I need right now? I actually asked the right question the other day. Yes, you did. Well done. Um, I have experienced seasons over the course of my life where every night I have wanted something sweet. I just do really, I know somebody else. Yes. Oh, I'm raising both hands. Yeah. Every single night. And there were seasons where I fought it. I would fight it. I would try shaming myself, hating myself into positive change, and it wouldn't work. I would tell myself, you don't need that. You're just feeling the emotions of the day. Just stop it. Just stop it.

SPEAKER_01 9:10

Now you sound like Bob Newhard. Yes, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 9:14

But one night earlier this week, and it's happened before, I paused and asked that different question. What is it, Lord, that I really need? What is this feeling really about? Um, and it's in those times when we can realize that it's the time of day when no one needs anything from me. That's amazing. The craving isn't necessarily about sugar. It may feel like it is, but it's about this lovely exhale that I get to experience. It's about comfort. It's about ending the day with gentleness and softness. And when I see that, the shame lifts. Yes. And once the shame lifts, I can ask, okay, what else can give me that reprieve, that softness, that gentleness, that relief that I long for? Maybe not perfectly, maybe not instantly, but definitely gently. Lord, what do you have for me here?

Soul Hunger And True Satisfaction

SPEAKER_01 10:19

Oh, that's so, so good, Heidi. And God cares about what we're hungry for, whether it's food or whether it's like a soul hunger, a heart hunger. Psalm 1079 says, For he satisfies the longing soul, and the hungry soul he fills with good things. I mean, what do I feed my soul when it's hungry?

SPEAKER_02 10:45

Wow, I love that verse. Think about it. I know.

SPEAKER_01 10:48

I'm gonna read it again. For he satisfies the longing soul, and the hungry soul he fills with good things. I mean, that really answers what we're talking about here. It's so specific. I just love that it says hunger for the soul, because that's where we're at so often.

SPEAKER_02 11:06

And you know, another thing I love about this is it validates you will experience hunger in your soul. And he and he alone is the one who satisfies. Yes, he's gonna fill you up with good things.

SPEAKER_01 11:21

Ah, that's amazing. Well, I love that the word satisfy is in there too. So it's not just you're gonna feel full, right? You know, it's like you're gonna feel satisfied, like you don't want anymore. It's it's gonna comfort you, it's gonna be the good thing that you need. And notice that it doesn't say that hunger is bad. Not at all. It doesn't say that. It says that hunger is something that God responds to. He's aware of it, he knows, he gets us, he knows what we need, he knows what we need in those moments at the end of the day when we are just done.

SPEAKER_02 12:01

Lord, I want to just thank you right now because this is causing me to well up with gratitude. I just thank you that you satisfy our longing souls, you satisfy our longing hearts with good things. Thank you, God. Thank you. Thank you. We get to share that fact with others in our podcast. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 12:23

Thank you, Lord. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 12:24

Amen. You know, our longing is not a liability. I think for years I have thought of it as a liability. Oh, yeah. It's a design feature, in fact. The problem isn't that I long for something or that you long for something. The problem is, if there is one, and and the one that I have run across many times, is that sometimes I try to fill that spiritual or emotional hunger with physical substitutes. Not because I'm rebellious particularly, but because I'm just tired. I'm weary. I'm done. I've clocked out. Thank you very much. I'm done for the day. I'm just, can I do that right now, even though it's only 10 o'clock?

SPEAKER_01 13:11

Well, and I think too, so many of us have been taught that. We've been taught how to fill every need with food or some other counterfeit. I think we've been taught that in our families, you know, in our world. Our families have done the best that they could do, but I know I was taught that. I was taught, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:33

Yeah, definitely. Well, so there are some things we want to explore about, you know, what cravings might be carrying for us. And we're gonna do this hopefully gently and yet practically. So here's some common messages that craving might be carrying or cravings, depending upon if you're a one and done or the first one might be exhaustion.

SPEAKER_01 13:59

Yeah, that's a big one for me.

Longing As Design, Not Defect

SPEAKER_02 14:01

Yeah, I'm just tired, not just physically, but emotionally, maybe even spiritually. Yeah. And maybe you've been strong all day. You want something that feels like comfort without effort.

SPEAKER_01 14:17

The next one is loneliness. How about that? And this doesn't isn't dependent on like how many people are in the room or in your house. You can feel loneliness wherever you are, around people or by yourself. You might be feeling unseen. Yeah. And food can become companionship when connection feels like it's unavailable or feels too risky or too much work.

SPEAKER_02 14:47

Right.

SPEAKER_01 14:47

Maybe you feel unseen and food is your friend at that point.

SPEAKER_02 14:53

Yeah, another message that a craving might carry for you is that you are in a state of overwhelm. When you feel like you can't hold one more thing or carry one more thing, your brain, your nervous system needs or wants something grounding and immediate. It's no small wonder the things that it grabs for are usually immediate, they're right there within reach.

SPEAKER_01 15:19

Well, and doesn't that make sense? I mean, it makes sense. It's not like what's the matter with me? Oh, this makes sense. It totally does. How about this reason? Suppressed emotion. I have a whole pile of feelings that I haven't processed yet. I've got like 20 things going on in my brain and in my heart. And sometimes we don't find the time, we don't make the time, we don't rather than leaning into, I need to process this with the Lord, we want to just numb. We want to run away. Food can numb grief, anger, disappointment, resentment, sorrow, you name it. Unfortunately, it doesn't work very well. It doesn't last for more than a minute or two, but it makes sense again when we suppress our emotions. They gotta go somewhere. We gotta do something with that.

SPEAKER_02 16:14

They do. And you know, I I think both you and I, Christina, have been experiencing a lot of emotions that about things that we're facing. And I know right now, just off the top of my head, I'm facing the reality that my husband's cancer is still an issue. It wasn't removed when he had the organ removed where they thought it was located. I haven't really processed fully my disappointment about that. And my son, who's on the autism spectrum, but he's a grown adult, he's he's dealing with a lot of things. I am so disappointed that this at my age continues to be something I need to deal with. Uh and I love him dearly. I love him so much. I mean, the list goes on and on, but these are big issues. And yeah, my best friend is still in the middle of treatment for breast cancer that's very aggressive. And I'm I'm like on the edge of my seat about that too. It's so much. And then in the meantime, I also wonder about health concerns that I've let go because I just didn't feel like I had the capacity to go get that test, that mammogram, for instance, or some of the other things. It's like I just I need to take care of myself, but I don't have time. My nervous system is on tilt. I can tell you that.

SPEAKER_01 17:36

Well, and we can relate. I can relate. People who are listening, I'm sure we can all relate. I mean, gosh, those are big, big, huge things.

Common Messages Inside Cravings

SPEAKER_02 17:48

Well, another thing that can contribute to my cravings and what they're trying to communicate to me is a sense of disconnection from God. If I feel far from the Lord, you know, that's I'm going to have a craving of some sort. It might show up like that little agitation I felt earlier this week. And sometimes we reach for food then when what we're really craving is his presence, yeah, his love, a sense of him just enveloping us in grace and mercy and peace. I mean, there you go. It's like I long for Jesus. I do, I long for Jesus.

SPEAKER_01 18:28

Yes. Well, and here's something important, I think, just to kind of share. Recognizing the message of about these cravings, it doesn't mean that you'll never eat emotionally again. You know, there's that finish line idea again. If I could just get to the finish line and not be an emotional eater, you know, we label ourselves, it's like, well, this is what I am. I want to get to a place where I'm not. But it's not about perfection, it's not at all. It's about awareness. And awareness actually creates choice, which is profound to me. Awareness creates choice. But what does shame do? It removes it, it removes choice. Shame gets us in that cycle where we just keep going back for more comfort, for more quick comfort, for more food or scrolling or whatever it is.

SPEAKER_02 19:24

A dopamine hit again.

SPEAKER_01 19:26

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 19:28

Yeah. Um, let's go to John 4 for a minute. Just I'm gonna talk about this. You know, Jesus met a woman who had had been trying to fill deep thirst, longings, yeah, with relationships, right? With men. I mean, it was it was all about that. He doesn't shame her, he names her thirst, and then he offers living water. Yeah, that's what we're talking about. Not shaming the substitute or the longing that we have, but identifying the thirst. What is that longing that we have? What is it at its source?

SPEAKER_01 20:08

Let's make this concrete and practical. Um, we have a little bit of a three-step pause the next time you feel a strong craving. And this is really, really simple, really simple. Um, but maybe it's something that will help. Maybe it's something that you want to try this week. So step one is notice, but do so without judging. Okay, notice without judging. That's step one. I'm having a craving right now. Rather than saying, what's wrong with me? I'm out of control. I don't have self-control or discipline. Leave all that judgment out and just ask, am I having a craving right now? Just notice. Don't notice what's going on. That's step one.

SPEAKER_02 20:58

Step two is just ask the Lord gently, Lord, what is this about? Am I tired? Am I lonely? Anxious, bored? Am I avoiding something? Do I need time with you?

SPEAKER_01 21:14

Yeah. And then step three, offer one small alternative, just one little step in a direction toward the Lord, toward something life-giving. We're not talking about a big, huge grand solution. We're not talking about hours and hours of journaling and prayer, nothing like that. Just one little small step, one small kindness to yourself. Here are some ideas. Maybe it's a glass of water, maybe it's a short prayer, just it can be a minute long. Maybe it's a five minute walk, even in your own house. Maybe it's texting a friend, maybe it's some deep breathing, some breath prayers. How about just journaling one on Honest sentence can be so short, so quick. You may still choose to eat, but now you're responding consciously. You have a choice, you're not reacting shamefully. There's a big difference there. Huge.

SPEAKER_02 22:18

Yeah, I have a list of things that I feel are life-giving for me. And it's things like that that I like to do at times when I can't identify what's going on. What is this craving about? I wish I'd thought of that when I was feeling so agitated earlier this week. But one of my favorite life-giving activities is to play with my big fluffy dog. I love playing with him. You do have a big fluffy dog. I do. And I just he makes me laugh and giggle. He's so regulating for my nervous system. So, I mean, if you have something that you know is life-giving to you, maybe you want to try that. We also want to be just really clear. Sometimes a craving may be just physical hunger. So, not everything is deep and symbolic. Honoring physical hunger is part of peaceful eating.

SPEAKER_01 23:09

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 23:10

We don't want to over-spiritualize food or cravings or anything else. It's not about doing that. It's just about expanding our awareness, inviting God into that awareness and letting him know we're listening for what he directs.

Naming Overwhelm And Suppressed Emotions

SPEAKER_01 23:25

Well, and Heidi, I love the idea of making a list of things like playing with my dog, you know, going out into my garden and smelling the roses, taking a five-minute walk, calling a friend. I love the idea of having a list of life-giving choices that take less than what, two, three minutes, uh, maybe even less than a minute. Like it, that's something you could even do while you're at work, you know, some deep breath prayers, those kinds of things. Listening to one of your favorite worship songs, or even just one minute of that worship song. I love the idea of having a list you can go to when you're having a craving and you're not quite sure what's going on. And it's like, I'm gonna go to this list and see if I can do something life-giving.

SPEAKER_02 24:18

We're not talking about spiritual bypass either. It's important to mention that where you know, you we want to not deal with something. So if I'm uncomfortable, okay, I know I'm uncomfortable. So rather than dealing with asking God to come in and show me, I just go, I should pray more, or I should read my Bible more, or I should this. No, that's not that's kind of disingenuous sometimes. And we want to not bypass those what God's really after in our hearts. So yeah, we want to kind of again, self-awareness is what we're talking about.

SPEAKER_01 24:55

So here comes another what if question that's really, really a good one. What if cravings are clues? What if they're clues that point toward what we need? And those needs are valid and important. Yes, but needs pointing towards dependence, dependence pointing toward God.

SPEAKER_02 25:15

Yeah, what if yeah, what if indeed? You know, because ultimately every craving, every craving, even misdirected ones, point toward desire for life, true abundant life, like it says in John 10:10, Jesus said that He He came, that they, you and I, might have life and have it abundantly, definitely not shame, not self-attack, not self-condemnation, but life, true life.

SPEAKER_01 25:47

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 25:48

Okay, so let's just normalize something for a moment. Okay, even when you understand these things, you may still eat, like Christina said a moment ago. You may still eat, and that does not mean you failed. You are learning a new language, you're learning a new way of approaching this, you're rewiring patterns that have been established maybe for decades in your brain and nervous system. That takes time, yeah. And truly, think about it: formation is slower than reacting in frustration. It also gives God room to be at work in you. That's what we want. We want to give him room in our lives and hearts.

SPEAKER_01 26:30

Yes. So this week, instead of fighting your cravings, try listening. What? Just give it a try. Try listening, not indulgently, not fearfully, but curiously.

SPEAKER_02 26:49

I like that. Ask, what are you trying to tell me? And then ask God, what are you offering me here? And I think we'll be surprised how often He meets us in that exact moment. Yes. He does so without condemnation. He meets us with his life-giving, loving, gracious, merciful presence.

SPEAKER_01 27:12

Oh, I love that so much.

Disconnection From God And Living Water

SPEAKER_02 27:14

Matthew 5, 6 says, Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be satisfied. Yay! You and I were designed to hunger. You and I were designed to thirst. The goal isn't to eliminate desire. No, no, no. It's to direct it to the one that we were designed to desire. And you are not weak because you crave, you are human and deeply loved.

SPEAKER_01 27:45

Thank you, Lord. Oh, I love that, Heidi. I love will you say that last part again?

SPEAKER_02 27:51

You are human and you are deeply loved.

SPEAKER_01 27:54

Yes. I love that. I love that. And we are so glad that you've been here with us today. And we would love to invite you to join us for our next episode of Revelation Within. We'll see you next time. Bye bye.