Welcome And Today’s Big Question

SPEAKER_01 0:02

Hi, welcome to our podcast, Revelation Within on the Go. I am Heidi Bilesma Epherson, one of your hosts, and the owner and lead coach of the RevelationWithin.org Ministry.

SPEAKER_00 0:16

And I'm Christina Motley, your other host, also a Revelation Within coach, and Heidi's partner in all things Revelation Within. We are so happy to invite you to join us for this episode of Revelation Within. Come on in. We're so glad you're here.

No Condemnation And Worship Story

SPEAKER_01 0:42

Definitely. Today we're going to talk about something that is really important. Yes. If you want to live in freedom, and who doesn't? If you want to experience peaceful eating and who doesn't, if you want peace in your body and who doesn't, if you want to walk in intimacy with Jesus and who doesn't. Yes. All of these things are related to what we're talking about today. Today we're asking the question, and we're going to talk about it, of course. Is what I'm experiencing conviction or is it shame? Oh. Such a good topic. It is a good topic. Yeah. So many women that we have met in our ministry assume that that harsh inner voice they hear is the Holy Spirit. What if it's not? What if it's not?

SPEAKER_00 1:39

What if it's not? What if it's not? Okay, well, let's let's just say this clearly. If if you or me or Heidi confuse shame with conviction, well, we're either going to do one of two things. We're going to live in constant self-condemnation. I've been there and you've been there. I've been there. We know what it's like to live there for actually years and years. And here's the other one. Or slowly pull away from God because we think that He sounds cruel.

SPEAKER_01 2:15

Oh that breaks my heart. That breaks my heart. And Romans 8:1 tells us, and I can't sing this loudly enough from the output. There is, therefore, now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. And you know, there is a song that I learned once upon a time about, you know, that used these very words. So it goes running through my head. But there is none, no condemnation, not less condemnation for those who are in Christ, not better worded condemnation, none. There is, therefore, now no condemnation. Hallelujah. Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_00 2:56

Yeah. Oh Hallelujah is right.

SPEAKER_01 2:59

I have always loved music appropriately enough. And I love worshiping the Lord so much. So I've been blessed to have the privilege to lead worship in one form or another since I was in high school. And I remember very distinctly that there have been times, some time ago now, uh early in my walk with God and life as a worship leader, I would disqualify myself from leading worship based on, I'm kind of embarrassed to admit this, but based on my size, I was of the opinion that God wouldn't want me to be up front. What? I say that now and I'm like, I can't believe I believed that. But I did. Yes. I I would even, I even mentioned it to somebody uh once who asked me why I wasn't leading worship anymore. This was so long ago. I mean, I was not even a mom yet. But anyway, my body was not a reflection I felt of his ability to meet my needs. I felt like when you looked at me, you could tell that I had gone to food and a lot of it for comfort, for whatever. I mean, just I felt like my body undermined whatever I would be singing, and that that dishonored God for me to be overweight and lead worship.

SPEAKER_00 4:20

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_01 4:20

Well, that was a lie from the pit of hell. Right? Yes, yes. It's an example of where I confused a voice inside of me, and that voice was actually shame, and I thought it was conviction. I wish I knew then what I know now. Romans 8:1. I hadn't yet learned the song. And you know, there is no condemnation for those of us in Christ. If God has gifted you or gifted me, we are called by God to use the gifts he has given for building his people up.

Classroom Video, Body Image, And Diet Panic

SPEAKER_00 4:57

That's his call on our life. Heidi, thank you for sharing that very vulnerable story. Um, I guess I have a vulnerable story too. I've been thinking about different ones that I was gonna share. Okay, so I was an elementary school teacher for almost 30 years, worked with young kids for almost 30 years before I switched into Revelation within full time, which I love love, love, love, love, love. Um, so there was a year where things got changed up because we had a coach come into our school, um, like an educational coach type person. It was the first time that we had had anything like this. Our principal had decided to use some discretionary money for this so that she could come in and help us kind of figure out how to shore things up and fill in some of the gaps for our little ones that were really struggling. It was uh high poverty school, high need school, and we we were struggling. So, you know, I was totally open to this and I was ready, and I thought, I'm a lifelong learner. Like, bring it on. Tell me what I can do differently to do better. And so this woman, I just have to tell you right off the bat, she was intimidating. Oh my gosh, she was so intimidating. The first time I saw her and heard her speak, I just I felt like a little girl. And I was an experienced teacher, you know. Um, she was definitely she carried herself in a way that was very intimidating. Just to say that at the beginning. Okay, so we're meeting with her, we're we're learning, we're trying some new things. And then she says, now we're gonna record you teaching lessons, and you're gonna be recorded and we're gonna watch the recordings.

unknown 6:58

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_00 7:00

And I was just, I mean, all of us, we all looked at her like, what? Like that sounds difficult and intimidating. It sounds kind of mortifying, it sounds very like a lot of pressure, very, very intense. And of course, our principal was all for it because she had paid good money for this woman to come in. We all had to participate, and over like a week's time, we all were, we were recorded, teaching at least one lesson, if not two. And I remember feeling so incredibly nervous when she came in and started recording. And I don't know, you know, maybe I wouldn't have been if it had been a different person or a different way of presenting this. But it was it was tough on all of us. I I mean, we all talked about it after school, and everybody was like, ah, you know, everybody was feeling very inadequate and um even embarrassed, you know, just feeling like uh I'm not good enough. Okay, so it came my turn to watch my video, and I was just mortified by the way I looked. That was what I looked at first. I wasn't even thinking about my teaching because, you know, teaching was something I had done for so long. But where did my mind go first? The way that I looked in the video. And you know, when I take pictures or we take family pictures on our phone, I'm in charge and I get to delete the ones that I don't like. But in this case, I was completely not in charge, not at all. And the video had been taken of me, and there I was wearing this awful sweater. No, I mean, honestly, I never wore it again. That was so hard for me after years and years of issues with food, eating, body image, weight. Honestly, I don't think it would have mattered what size I was. I don't think, I don't even know what size I was at at the time. I could have been in between diets, I could have been dieting, I could have been whatever. It doesn't even matter. I was mortified by the way I looked. I thought I looked horrible. And I was not alone. I mean, so many of the teachers felt the same way. Of course, we would say that privately later. Oh, did you see how I looked? I'm never wearing that outfit again. Ah, you know, that's it. So the shame definitely made the rounds. Yeah. And so what did I do? What was my response to that? On a diet? Yes, I like I went home and I started looking up a new diet plan, a new exercise plan, some way to fix me. And I was frantic and I was upset and I was discouraged, and I thought, this is conviction. You know, God has shown me what is true. Oh in this video. Yeah, it was awful. And like you said, Heidi, I can't even believe that I was thinking that um at the time. But, you know, even though I had loved the Lord since I was a little girl, I had some really wrong beliefs about who he was and about how he saw me.

SPEAKER_01 10:24

So, what do you think he actually felt um about that whole thing in that moment? How did Jesus feel about you and about the shame that you allowed to kind of define that for you?

Defining Shame Versus Conviction

SPEAKER_00 10:36

Well, now, knowing what I know now and having read the word, having experienced his grace, having now lived in his grace for quite a long time, now I think that his heart was broken when my heart was broken. And he knew, of course, what was gonna happen. He knew, he knows everything, and he knew that I would feel that way. But my guess is that he was longing to show me compassion. He was longing to get through to me. Christina, I love you, I made you, you're beautiful, fearfully and wonderfully made. Um, let me talk to you about how I see you because you don't you don't get it. You don't know, you don't understand how I see you. So I imagine him wrapping his arms around me. I imagine him bringing comfort to my heart, to my soul, and I imagine him whispering truth into my mind from his word. I was not in that place. I have, I really have, and I'm so grateful. Uh, we both have, right, Heidi?

SPEAKER_01 11:52

Yeah, for sure. Well, and so it's important for us to be able to tell the difference because one voice is going to lead to repentance, yes, true repentance, and life, but the other can lead to condemnation, or in my case, with the story I shared, hiding. And we don't want to buy the lie of the enemy or of the world. So let's look for a moment at what biblical shame actually is. What is shame? Shame says I am bad, I always do this, I'll never change. God must be disappointed with me. Or I've even heard people say I don't want to let God down. Yes. And you know what? Here's the good news. I'm not holding them up. Right. I don't have to worry about that. No, definitely not. Well, those are all shame. That's what shame says. But conviction, now conviction says that choice didn't align with who I am or who you are, God. Right. And another uh voice, uh, what it might say to me that is from conviction is come back. God calling you back to him. And then here's another one. Let's walk in truth. These are his words to me.

SPEAKER_00 13:08

Yeah. Ah, I just love that. I love that. I love that too. Come back. I love that. Um, so let's go to Genesis 3 for just a minute. And Adam and Eve. Um, Genesis 3, 8 says, they hid themselves, there's that hiding, from the presence of the Lord God. So yeah, if I find myself hiding, running away, or trying to, of course I can't run away from God. He's right here with me. He's promised never to leave me, but I can imagine myself kind of okay, I'll, I'll, I'm running away. Like I feel this shame. Conviction responds to God's question. Where are you? And that's God's question. And of course, He knows, He knows exactly where I am. But notice that God does not begin with, What's wrong with you? I mean, that's what I have said to myself since I was a teenager. Um, not anymore, hopefully, but not very often. But he didn't say that. God said instead, Where are you? Where are you? Okay, so let's look at 2 Corinthians 7 10. Godly sorrow produces repentance that leads to salvation without regret. Whereas worldly sorrow produces death. Okay, let's look at that for a second. Godly sorrow leads to conviction. But worldly sorrow leads to a shame spiral. So does this voice produce hope or despair?

Scripture Anchors For Discernment

SPEAKER_01 14:58

That's a really good way of knowing if you are hearing or sensing an impression of somebody saying something to you, whether it you know it's your voice or whether you wonder if it's God's, look at what it produces in you. And if it produces hope, that's an encouraging sign. If it produces despair, uh yeah, watch out. It might be the enemy's trying to deceive you. All right. So this is where integration of neuroscience is so much fun and so powerful because God made us fearfully and wonderfully, that is for sure. So when we talk about the nervous system, we're talking about something God made, and it's a wonderful thing.

SPEAKER_00 15:41

And I know you love this topic, Heidi.

Nervous System Clues And Regulation

SPEAKER_01 15:43

You get all excited, it's so much fun. And I'm diving in a little deeper than I usually go with it today. Um, so watch out, hang on to your hats and glasses, and you're gonna join me in going deeper, Christina. Okay, I'm ready. Well, our bodies can often tell us, believe it or not, which voice we're listening to. Are we listening to a voice of shame, which comes with certain physiological responses, or are we listening to the loving voice of conviction from our loving God who spared no expense to buy us from the enemy? I mean, he he spared no expense. God demonstrates his love for us. Yes, that while we were still a mess, Christ died for us. So here's here's a way of telling if you are in a place of shame. Shame is going to activate your a tight chest. You might feel a tight chest, you might your posture might collapse, so you're kind of downcast. You might have heat in your face. Yeah. There might be this sense of oh urgency. And I know for me, I call that and uh when I feel it, it's like an agitation. It's almost like I've had too much caffeine, only it's it doesn't have to be related to caffeine, but it is uh like I'm amped up, and there's what is this? What is this? Um, a sense of fight or flight, like I'm ready for a fight, I'm ready for a fight. Well, I'm out of here. Out of here. Where's the door? Yeah. And freeze. Another one is where I mean, I know there was a season where I would kind of snap out of it and realize I'd been gone, if you will, in my mind for minutes at a time and didn't even recognize it. It was during a time of trauma for me. And that's freeze. You don't have to be in a time of trauma to go through that, but where you go, where have I been for the last few minutes? And really, all of these examples are sympathetic nervous system activation. I love that. Sympathetic nervous system activation. Okay. Or on the other hand, we have, are you ready for this? Dorsal vagal shutdown. Wow. And that have you ever somebody says, How are you doing today? And you just say, I'm just numb. Numb is dorsal vagal shutdown. Now you know the scientific name for it. Yeah. Or if you feel why bother with anything. That's another example of dorsal vagal shutdown or shame, hopelessness. Like, oh, I just don't think there's any way out of this. That's a good example of that. But conviction, yeah, true Holy Spirit conviction, and I'm leaning forward in my chair, it is going to feel clear, it's direct. It's like the sound of a bell that's so pure that you hear it above any other background noise. It's calm. It might be sad. There might be a sense of sadness, but there's a steadiness to it and it's regulated. It's not like all over the place. Right, right. So even if it's sobering, it's regulating. It feels so good to know that God is present in me and with me and wants to tell me, not this way, go that way. The Holy Spirit produces in us the fruit of the spirit, love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. I don't know if I missed one or not, but the Holy Spirit doesn't bypass the fruit of the spirit to get your attention. No, he's gonna, if he's there, he's gonna be sure that you can sense those things, that fruit of his presence.

SPEAKER_00 19:27

So let's go ahead and do a little something together, a little exercise together right here during the podcast. Think of something that you feel bad about from this week. Okay, got it thinking about it. Now notice what is happening in your chest. How are you feeling right now? Are you bracing? Is your inner voice harsh? Okay, so now imagine Jesus sitting right beside you. What changes? So this shift often reveals which voice you were hearing.

SPEAKER_01 20:14

Yeah, that's good. I I needed to do that. It's funny because the minute I started thinking, you know, scanning through things I feel bad about this week. It's like I began hearing the voice saying, Yeah, can you believe you did that? And what about that? And I'm like, wait a minute. Right. So the accuser was right there and I was collapsing. I was going, uh-oh, this is not fun. Oh, and then when Jesus was sitting beside me in my imagination, I could because he's here, he's here. He's here. I just sensed the love. Um, yeah. Yes, that was nice.

SPEAKER_00 20:50

Huge difference there, huge.

SPEAKER_01 20:52

Yeah. So we've talked about what shame does, that it hides, it isolates, it activates the nervous system in ways that feel chaotic or shaming or collapsing. So now let's turn towards something deeply hopeful. Much better, much better. So, how does the Holy Spirit actually speak? If we don't know his voice, we might default to the loudest or most familiar voice instead. Yes, and that's not necessarily the Holy Spirit. So let's anchor in scripture. We're gonna go there today. That's great. Um, the spirit, it says in the scriptures, reminds you of Jesus and what he has taught you and spoken to you. In John 14, 26, the scripture says, But the helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you. The Holy Spirit teaches, He reminds, He Brings to our remembrance what Jesus has said, he does not invent new insults.

unknown 22:06

Right.

Guided Reflection With Jesus Nearby

SPEAKER_01 22:06

He does not. No, he doesn't create identity level at condemnation either. He brings you back, he brings me back to the words and character of Christ. So if the voice you are hearing doesn't sound like Jesus in the Gospels, that voice is probably not aligned with John 14, 26.

How The Spirit Teaches And Reminds

SPEAKER_00 22:29

Right. Recently, and in the last few months, I've had a lot of medical appointments. And those have been difficult. You know, that's been a hard time where feelings come up like, oh, I don't want to be here. This feels uncomfortable. Is this me? This doesn't feel like my life. I want to get out of here. Things like that. Um, because I'm dealing with uh breast cancer. And so I'm in treatment for that still, even though I am cancer free right now, which is absolutely fantastic, praising God. Um, but I do have quite a bit of treatment ahead of me still. And so um there have been times during those appointments in the waiting room or waiting for the doctor to come in. There's a lot of little waiting times where it's like kind of an emptiness there. And I know that it would be very, very easy for the enemy to come in and sometimes he does and say things like, This is you now, this is who you are, this is your life, you know, this is um just really awful things that are not true. And sometimes shame is involved in that too. But I've gotten better and better and better with practice at telling myself the truth from scripture. And yeah, during those times, and I'm not a person who can just rattle off scripture. I've never been that way. You know, memorizing has always been hard for me, but certain phrases jump out in my mind, but things like this pop into my mind. Christina, I am with you always. I am the lifter of your head, I am holding you by your right hand. I will never ever leave you. It's from the word of God, it's from the Holy Spirit, it's truth that never changes. And I can keep that going. I can say those same phrases or come up with more that I've read a million times in the Word. It doesn't have to be the entire verse, it's just the truth. It lines up with the truth of scripture and that changes everything.

SPEAKER_01 24:45

Everything. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:46

Yeah. I become relaxed. I'm able to calm down. My body physically relaxes and emotionally relaxes as well. I'm able to kind of crawl up into the Lord's lap and just remain there and feel safe. It changes everything to run that truth through my mind. And I have the choice to do that. That's not like, oh, it happened and it was great, and I hope it happens again someday. It's not like that. It is my choice to do that. And God comes right in and is right there with me. I I love that. And I love that I have the choice so that for my next appointment, which is next week, I know exactly what to do. And I just, oh, it's so hopeful and so peaceful as well.

SPEAKER_01 25:41

Yay. Um, for me, the first time that God used Romans 8, 6 in a way that I can recall really strongly was when I was waiting outside an OR, an operating room before a really intense surgery. And he reminded me that the mind controlled by the spirit is life and peace. Yes. And that has come to mind again recently when I found out that my 33-year-old autism spectrum son Daniel, who's such a sweetie pie, has a really challenging abnormality in the way his aorta and some other things are structured in his body that are causing him difficulties. And I started to go into panic mode that, you know, sympathetic, where my blood pressure went up and my pulse rate went up, and I, you know, you know, and I began, you know, there were voices that came with that and said, you know, you aren't a good mom and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Anyway, not going to repeat those, but God reminded me again where I get to choose what I think about. Yes. And the mind controlled by the spirit is life and peace. That's what he offers me. The mind controlled by the flesh, which is where I was going, can bring about death. And not just physical death, of course, but uh, he also means I think by that emotional death, I can poison myself and others with the way I think. Yes. So I want to have my mind controlled by the Holy Spirit for sure.

Medical Trials, Truth Talk, And Peace

SPEAKER_00 27:24

Yeah. So let's talk a little bit about how the spirit leads. And this is from Romans 8, verses 14 and 15. For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God. For you did not receive the spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you have received the spirit of adoption as sons, by whom we cry, Abba, Father. Oh, I love, I love that I'm a daughter of God. I love that. It's one of my favorite truths. And that word Abba, that's you know, that's a really relational word. That's an intimate word. Like daddy. Yeah, like daddy. If the inner voice produces fear-based slavery, if it feels like you're constantly trying to avoid punishment, well, that does not match adoption, that does not match God's heart. So conviction may say, This isn't who you are. You are my girl, my daughter. But shame says you're still a slave.

SPEAKER_01 28:31

Ooh. Ooh.

SPEAKER_00 28:34

Yeah, I know.

SPEAKER_01 28:35

Profound, right? Whoa. Romans 8.26. Again, we're looking at how does the spirit speak to us, and the spirit intercedes. So it says in Romans 8.26, likewise, the spirit helps us in our weakness. Love that already. Love that. But we do not know even what to pray for as we ought, but the spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words. I love that the spirit helps me in my weakness. Yes. He doesn't berate me in my weakness. No, he intercedes, he prays, he stands with me and for me. So if the voice feels like someone standing over me or you with crossed arms, tapping their toe and looking stern, that is not Romans 8.26. That's not the Holy Spirit.

SPEAKER_00 29:30

No, it's definitely not. Okay, let's look at how Jesus handles real actual sin. Let's let's go there. Okay, John chapter 8, verses 10 and 11. This is the story of Jesus and the woman caught in adultery. Jesus stood up and said to her, Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you? And she said, No one, Lord. And Jesus said, Neither do I condemn you. Go and from now on sin no more. Okay, let's kind of notice the order of things, the the order of events here. First, Jesus says, Neither do I condemn you. And then he says, Go and sin no more. So I mean he's actually removing condemnation before he addresses the behavior. Shame reverses the order. Yep, it does. So shame says, fix yourself, and then you can approach. But Jesus says, come close and then walk differently. And not only that, but like you just said, Heidi, uh, Jesus will be our strength, he will be strong in our weakness. So we are not doing it alone.

Adoption Not Slavery: Romans 8

SPEAKER_01 30:53

Yes. How do you suppose reversing that order has harmed women in diet culture or even church culture?

SPEAKER_00 31:03

Yeah. So, so in so many ways. Well, and how does that order change how we approach food struggles?

SPEAKER_01 31:12

It's like instead of Jesus standing there judging me for it, he's inviting me to come and learn from him. I love that. Yeah, I love it too. Well, we want to offer a practical way for you to evaluate when you're hearing a voice speaking, and obviously we're not talking about an audible voice necessarily, but if if there's a voice inside of you, an impression you sense, and you aren't sure if it is from God, conviction, or from somewhere else like shame and condemnation, and there's a way of doing that. So when you hear one of those voices, ask, first of all, does this align with scripture? Is what it's telling me consistent with the counsel of the word of God? In Romans 8:1, we know it's not going to tell me I'm condemned. Psalm 103, verse 8. The Lord is merciful and gracious, slow to anger, abounding in steadfast love. And Zephaniah 3:17 says, The Lord your God is in your midst. Yes, he's a mighty one to save, he will rejoice over you with gladness, he will quiet you with his love, and he will exult over you with loud singing.

SPEAKER_00 32:28

Oh, I love that verse. One of my very favorites.

SPEAKER_01 32:32

I've got one more, too. And remember, this is what we're asking ourselves. Does the voice I hear and what it's saying align with scripture? So we want to go kind of through that in our mind before we make it our own. First John 3, 19 and 20 says, By this we shall know that we are of the truth and reassure our heart before him. For whenever our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart. There it is. Everything. There it is. There it is. If my heart condemns me, it doesn't mean it's truth. Right. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 33:08

Exactly. So that's the first way. Yeah, definitely. Okay, here's the second way. We want to ask does it attack my identity or address my behavior? So remember, shame is the one who says, you are a failure. Like this owns you. This is who you are. That's shame. But conviction says that choice wasn't life-giving. There's a whole different focus there.

SPEAKER_01 33:36

Yeah, very different. The third question then to ask, we've got five questions total for you to kind of scrutinize the voices that we hear. First is does it align with scripture? Second, what Christina just said, does it attack my identity or address my behavior? The third one is does it move me toward God or away from Him? You know, the truth is conviction is going to be an invitation to come nearer to the Lord. Shame is going to make me feel like I need to hide.

Jesus And The Woman Caught In Sin

SPEAKER_00 34:07

Right. Exactly, exactly. Okay. And the fourth question is, is there hope attached? Because conviction is the way that includes a way forward. Shame keeps us completely stuck. And we even can go down, you know, down, down, down.

SPEAKER_01 34:25

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 34:26

Um, emotionally spiral every way. But if there's hope attached, we know that's conviction from the Holy Spirit. There's always hope attached when the Holy Spirit is concerned.

SPEAKER_01 34:38

The fifth question then is okay, what is happening in my nervous system right now? Am I regulated or am I spiraling? Am I feeling peaceful? Am I feeling calm? Am I able to take deep breaths? Or am I going, oh, yes.

SPEAKER_00 34:56

And we've all felt that way. We all have for sure. Okay, so let's go back to that classroom scenario for me that I described at the beginning of our podcast, where I was watching that video of myself and I felt so inadequate, and I just I was so mean to myself and my thoughts, really. Um, and I felt very much condemned and so incredibly uncomfortable. Let's use that example to go through these five steps. Okay. So the first question that I could ask myself, does this align with scripture? And of course, the answer is no. No, absolutely not. I mean, not even close. Not even close. No, because there's no condemnation in Christ. And so those thoughts were not coming from the Holy Spirit. Were were the words merciful? Were they gracious? Were they abounding in steadfast love? No, no, no, absolutely not. Okay, the second question I could ask myself is does it attack my identity or address my behavior? So the way I was looking at it was shame, shame, shame. I'm a failure. I'm inadequate. I'm not good enough. So, no, I mean, I was not looking at this through the eyes of the Holy Spirit at all. How about does it move me toward God or away from Him? Again, conviction draws near, but I felt like I wanted to run away and hide. So I was definitely in a place of shame. Number four, was there hope attached? Because conviction always includes hope and a way forward. And really, no, I mean, I felt like I had hit a brick wall. I did not feel hope. I was actually feeling hopeless. And then the last question: what is happening in my nervous system? Yeah, I had the red face for sure. And I was feeling frantic and exhausted and, you know, just kind of completely dysregulated, whatever you want to call that. I was out of sorts, completely out of sorts.

Five Questions To Test The Voice

SPEAKER_01 37:11

It's interesting because, in spite of the beauty and wonder and goodness of God's perspective and what conviction can do in our lives, it's loving, it's invitational, it's restorative. We nevertheless seem to gravitate towards shame again and again. Sometimes we even cling to shame. Yes. So why is that? You know what I think? I think that when I act like I'm feeling ashamed, I have this sense that somehow I'm doing something godly. Isn't that weird? That's so true. So true. Yeah, and it feels like I'm doing something, yeah. At least, you know, it feels responsible. I I feel shame. So that's gonna work in my favor, right? Does it ever? No, never, never. Well, if I don't feel shame, then I'm not being humble. And we know being humble is a godly trait. Well, no, those rely upon lie upon lie. Shame is self-focused, it's all about me. Yeah, it's performance-based, it's all about me, and I don't want to live there, I don't want to go there. Instead, I want to be spirit-focused. Conviction is holy spirit focused. Shame says I gotta punish myself, I gotta change the way I'm acting. Conviction is simply an invitation from God, return to me, return to me. Yeah, and Isaiah 30, 15 says it beautifully. And repentance and rest is your salvation, and quietness and trust is your strength. Shame isn't quiet. No, it's loud, loud has this ginormous mallet, it beats me on the head with it does, and I just have to say it again: shame is not from God.

SPEAKER_00 39:06

Shame is not from God, shame is not from God. Yeah, it's really, it is not. Um, I didn't know that for a very long time. So Revelation 12.10 calls Satan, the enemy, the accuser of our brothers. Accusation is it's actually his language, it's the language he speaks. Intercession, though, is Jesus's language. Yes, yay, for sure. Romans 8.34 says, Christ Jesus is at the right hand of God and is interceding for us. Yay! I mean, that's such good news. That's beautiful. So if that voice that you're hearing feels like accusation, well, you know, you know it's not coming from your intercessor, and that's Christ. We are so happy that you've been with us today. It's been great. Thanks for joining us. Come back and join us next time for our next episode of Revelation Within. See you next time. Bye bye.