Welcome And Warm Opening

SPEAKER_00 0:01

Hi, and welcome to our podcast, Revelation Within on the Go. I'm Heidi Bilesma Epperson, one of your hosts, and the owner and lead coach of the RevelationWithin.org Ministry.

SPEAKER_01 0:14

And I'm Christina Motley, your other host, also a Revelation Within coach, and Heidi's partner in all things Revelation Within. We are so happy to invite you to join us for this episode of Revelation Within. We had our arms up at the end there, just so you know. Well, hey there, y'all.

SPEAKER_00 0:44

Today's conversation is going to feel well, I say that almost every week, don't I? Almost every week. A little different. Honestly, it's a real important conversation for us to have. It's a really important conversation for us to have.

The Unasked "What About" Questions

SPEAKER_01 0:58

Yes. So we're gonna have it. Today we're leaning in. Are you leaning in, Heidi? We're leaning in. Okay. Into the kinds of questions that people often think, um, including us over the years, right? Definitely including um us, but they don't always say them out loud. So this is what we call those the what about questions, the but whatabout questions. That's what we call those.

SPEAKER_00 1:28

Okay. Questions like okay, y'all talk to me every week on this podcast, but what about sin? You're not mentioning sin. Or yeah, that's a good one. You guys aren't talking about nutrition at all. Um, or what if I take this too far? I have anorexic tendencies in my past. Uh, what if I take this too far? This approach of eating according to hunger satisfaction and listening to God um and my body. Yes, good. And then another what about what about this question is isn't this just giving myself permission to go off the rails and not call it that?

SPEAKER_01 2:11

Yeah. And you know what? Just right up front, let's say this. Those are really good questions. They are, they are good questions, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:22

In fact, if you've had questions like these, oh listener, yeah, it probably means you're thinking deeply. You may even be listening to the Lord about it all. You're not just grabbing onto something quickly, but you're being discerning, and we want to celebrate that. Celebrate, celebrate.

SPEAKER_01 2:39

We love that. We love that. We do because what we teach is not meant to, you know, bypass wisdom, it's meant to deepen it. So this is good. This is why we're here. We got to have these discussions.

Where Sin Fits With Grace

SPEAKER_00 2:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:54

Okay, let's start with one of the biggest ones. What about sin? Ah, what about sin? If I'm turning toward grace, if I'm not focused on rules, what happens to sin? What do we do with that?

SPEAKER_00 3:11

Where is it? What is it? Where is it? What's going on behind the scenes? And that's really an important question. One of the reasons it's so important is because over the many years that many of us have been going in and out of different programs and whatnot, different leaders of those different programs have defined sin for us. And we never ever, Christine and I, never want to communicate that sin doesn't matter. We also want to be really clear about how transformation actually happens. And we don't want to call something sin that God doesn't call sin. And we don't want to call something not sin that God does call sin. There's a lot of factors to take into consideration. Maybe we should do a podcast episode about this. Maybe we should. Yeah, because it is, it's important, it's a big topic. Romans 6, verses 1 and 2 says, Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? By no means. So in this passage, Paul is kind of asking a rhetorical question. Like the answer is kind of obvious. Shall we go on sinning so that we can experience more and more and more of God's grace? May it never be, he says in another translation. Or no way.

SPEAKER_01 4:35

Right. It's pretty clear. And then how about this one? Philippians 2 13. It is God who works in you to will and to act in order to fulfill his good purpose. I love that one. I love that one.

SPEAKER_00 4:50

Here's an important truth: Grace is not permission to sin. Grace is power to be transformed. And really, I want to just say this again because I don't think I can say it too much, hopefully. And that is that one of the ways we experience God's grace in an ongoing daily way in our lives, Christina and I, and that we teach to others is through look and learn. If I have something that I feel like I just have failed at, I have struggled, I've gone sideways, I've messed up big time, I've sploogied. Yes, I can go to God and ask him, what can I learn from this? So that if all things are equal anytime in the future, I can be victorious instead of a big old mess up. And so keeping that in mind, grace is power to be transformed.

SPEAKER_01 5:46

Yes. And we know when we focus only on behavior, we often miss what's underneath the behavior. We get so stuck on what am I doing? Why can't I stop? This is driving me nuts. Behavior, behavior, behavior behavior. And it's like, wait a minute, there's something underneath. We need to go deeper for things to change.

Cravings As Longings God Can Meet

SPEAKER_00 6:09

Right. So, no, we're not ignoring sin. Um, we really don't. So we are going deeper than behavior to the beliefs and longings that are driving it. In the month of March, our community, RevWithin.team, uh, has been going through a study that about the fact that we have loud longings, but we also have a holy God. And he doesn't stand there with his hands on his, I don't know, hips. It just sounds weird. You know, condemning us for having longings. What we've been learning this month and practicing this month is reframing our longings, which we also call cravings, and invite God to show us what longing is here and what invitation do you want me to receive from you, Lord, that I am interpreting as a craving, and I'm either giving in to it and calling it sin or whatever. So yeah, you need to come to our community.

SPEAKER_01 7:08

Oh, it spins so good too. I mean, people are making all kinds of kinds of comments that this is really hitting the spot. It's like, what do I do with these cravings? What if a craving isn't something to run away from? What if it's something to listen to? Like you just said, it's an invitation. Wow, it's a longing. I mean, that's like mind-blowing. It's really, really good what we're looking at. We'd love for you to come join us.

SPEAKER_00 7:36

Yeah. So while sin can indeed be a part of a conversation, it's not, it's not about one bite past satisfied. It really isn't. Uh honest to goodness. Now, each one of us has to follow the Lord in what he convicts us of or brings to our attention. So we're gonna urge you to take it to the Lord, invite him in. But now let's change gears.

SPEAKER_01 8:01

Okay. Uh the next what about question? What about nutrition? Are we saying that it doesn't matter what we eat? Is that is that where we are?

SPEAKER_00 8:13

No, not at all. But we're saying nutrition is not a starting place of transformation. I mean, it's fascinating to think about. We in in our societies these days, and I imagine this happens all over the world, not just where we live. We can make an idol out of anything, including nutrition. I mean, there is a relatively new eating disorder called orthorexia. And we've mentioned it before because it's been around for a while, but I think it's now officially in the DSM 567, whatever they're up to now. But anyway, um, and it defines this as kind of being obsessed with nutrition and thinking that righteousness is based on what I put in my body or not. That's scary. That's not sin. That's not happiness either. No, no, no, that's not what we're about. All right, so let's anchor our discussion, please, in scripture. Romans 14, 17. The kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace, and joy in the Holy Spirit. Yes. All right, go for it, Christine.

SPEAKER_01 9:26

Love that. Okay, so when we're disconnected from our bodies, no amount of nutrition knowledge will bring peace. I mean, isn't that? I don't know. I think about all the years that I was trying to learn about nutrition. I actually hired a nutritionist once and she said, and I couldn't afford her. This was when I was in my 20s. I could not afford her. And she said, okay, how about this? I like to go for a walk every day. So if you and I walk, then I'll charge you half price. And I thought, oh, this is great. She's gonna charge me half price. This is just what I need. I need more knowledge about nutrition. That's what my problem is. That's why I keep going to the wrong foods at the wrong times and the wrong amounts or whatever. I was thinking. That's what I thought. The only thing I can remember from her all these years later is that she wanted me to eat blueberries. That's all I can remember. I really, I, you know, most of it I thought, well, I I know that. Yeah, I've I've learned that. I I know that, and I've heard that many. I mean, it's something that, you know, it's just there. And we think, oh, I just what do I need? I need more knowledge. But I wasn't getting any peace. I was still struggling with behaviors that I knew were not beneficial for my body. Um, and it didn't matter that I I had this nutrition knowledge about blueberries. It just didn't matter.

SPEAKER_00 11:01

It's interesting to me how many of us know a lot about nutrition and it doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_01 11:09

It doesn't help us because that's not where the issue is.

SPEAKER_00 11:12

It doesn't go deep enough. As we become more connected to God and our bodies, wisdom can grow naturally and supernaturally, really. When you think about it, nutrition does matter, but it flows best from connection with God rather than control.

SPEAKER_01 11:29

Yeah, exactly. So, I mean, we're not saying don't look at what you're eating, just eat whatever you want, you'll be fine, no matter how your body feels. We're not talking about that. We definitely want to go to God for wisdom and we want to do what's best for our bodies most of the time, definitely. But if if nutrition and restrictions and rules and what is the Instagram post saying now, I mean, if that's all we're looking at, we're gonna have trouble. And many of you probably get this, and I get this, and Heidi gets this too, because it doesn't go deep enough, it doesn't go to the issues of the heart and the issues of our thoughts, which is you know, where we need to go. So, anyway, such a good question, such a good question.

SPEAKER_00 12:19

And it doesn't take into account discernment. You know, one of our five intentions of peaceful eating includes, you know, making choices that cause my body to feel its best. And and so when I picture the organs and body parts that make up my body all having a vote, not just the taste buds, you know, the taste buds aren't king, um, but my heart, um, my joints, my liver. I used to have a gallbladder and it would have liked a vote every now and then. But anyway, mine too. And it didn't get about what we're talking about. It's discerning what causes my body to feel its best. When do I find myself energetic and strong? And when do I not so much?

Fear Of Taking Freedom Too Far

SPEAKER_01 13:07

Well, and it's not the same for everybody, not at all. Right. And it's not the same for every season of life, not at all. So, yeah, that's that's so important. I love that you brought up discernment, Heidi. Thank you. All right, so that was such a good question. We're gonna move on to another what about? What if I take this too far? What if I just eat whatever I want all the time?

SPEAKER_00 13:35

To be honest with you, that fear, and I can so identify with it, usually comes from a lifetime of relying on external controls. Somebody else is telling me, do this, don't do this, eat this, don't eat that. I have lists of good and bad foods that I can eat. And so I'm afraid that I'm going to just go nuts with all kinds of things that I haven't been allowed to eat for decades or something. And that's kind of the root of that fear is I haven't been allowed to have that.

SPEAKER_01 14:08

Let's go to 2 Timothy 1:7. For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power, love, and a sound mind.

SPEAKER_00 14:18

Amen to that. And when we remove external rules, some of us get really scared. Yes, it feels like there's nothing holding us at all. What can I lean into? What can I depend on? But the invitation from God to you personally, to me personally, to Christina, is to discover there's something better, something better holding you when rules aren't holding you.

SPEAKER_01 14:46

Yeah, so much. You know, freedom is not chaos, freedom is learning to live with God instead of under rules.

SPEAKER_00 14:56

I think that's why we want to call it spirit-led eating and our five intentions of spirit-led eating. The goal when we love the Lord is to be led by his Holy Spirit who lives in us, and that includes eating. So spirit-led eating. It's not chaos at all, it's listening to God and how he prompts me.

SPEAKER_01 15:17

Yes, absolutely. And boy, that's also something that we talk about so much in our community, in our classes. Um, it is a beautiful, hopeful conversation. If you need more of that, come and come and look us up.

Why Pressure Fails And Grace Works

SPEAKER_00 15:31

Yeah, definitely. All right, so here's yet another tough question. Isn't eating without any kind of rules or I don't know, boundaries just letting myself off the hook? And that's a really good, honest question.

SPEAKER_01 15:46

Yes, and you know, I think that comes from a belief that pressure produces change. I mean, that's the way I've lived most of my life with this pressure. I gotta change, I gotta change, and it's gotta be now, now, now, and I'm late.

SPEAKER_00 16:03

Yes, and I love the way you worded that, Christina, because you can hear emotion in your voice and the word it actually causes our sympathetic nervous system to come online and our logic brain to go offline, and that causes all kinds of physiological responses in our body that work against actually accomplishing anything productive at all. Right. So true, so true. Galatians 5 1 says it is for freedom that Christ has set us free. And if you were to read on in that verse, you would see that it also says, so let us not put again on a yoke of slavery.

SPEAKER_01 16:41

Okay, so shame and pressure might produce short-term behavior change. We've all experienced that. It's like, okay, if I can pull it together for three days, but they don't produce lasting transformation, and we've all experienced that. It falls short.

SPEAKER_00 16:59

Yeah, I can't hate myself into positive change. I say that almost every time I have a chance on one of our podcasts or in our classes or in our community. And here's the thing: prevailing on God's grace doesn't mean I don't have any responsibility, it changes the way I engage my responsibility as well as grace. Let me just refer to Titus chapter 2, verse 11 and 12. The grace of God that brings salvation teaches us to say no to ungodliness and worldly passions and to live self-controlled, upright, and godly lives in the present age. I mean, that's awesome. It's the grace of God that teaches us that, not external rules. Isn't that awesome? This isn't about lowering the bar, it's about changing the source of lasting change. Ah that's awesome.

When Progress Feels Slow

SPEAKER_01 17:53

It is awesome. Okay, so we're moving on to the next question, which is why isn't this working yet?

SPEAKER_00 18:05

I've been trying the five intentions of spirit-led eating for 20 minutes now. Yes, exactly, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 18:14

Why isn't this working yet? And how many times have we asked that question? It's such a good question. It makes so much sense to ask it as well, especially when you look at where our world is in this rush, rush, rush. Hurry up, let's fix it. You're behind. That's what the world says. And so we feel like we are. We're we're like, I'm late somehow. I'm late to this race.

SPEAKER_00 18:39

Yeah. And the the thing that we usually mean by that, of course, is how come my body hasn't changed yet? That's the bottom line. Most people are saying this hasn't worked yet. What's going on? It means I haven't lost any weight. But you know what? Think about this for a minute. And I think this incorporates a lot of what we've been talking about so far today into the response. And that is, what if God is after something a little bit different than a shape shift in your physical body? What if he is seeing it through? He is seeing some changes that he wants to see, things that matter. There we go, deeper again. Instead of just what's external, the you know, the things that are seen are temporary, sadly, temporary oftentimes. Um, but the things that are not seen are eternal. And so maybe God is accomplishing what he's after. And which would I so maybe it is working, and we just are focused on the wrong end goal or something, you know? I mean, yeah, Romans 12, 2, as we quote a lot, says, Don't be conformed to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. You know, mindal isn't instant. We have to keep at it and keep at it and keep at it. It's a process. I mean, that's how we're changed. That's truly how we're transformed from the inside out. Sometimes it feels so much slower than we want. We have another episode coming up about rushing and if we're rushing God or not, and all of that.

SPEAKER_01 20:12

Right. Slow does not mean ineffective because maybe for the very first time you are looking at something with the Lord that goes so much deeper than external rules and restrictions and you know what this influencer might say or whatever. And so it feels slow, but it's not ineffective. It's important, it's gonna get to the heart of the matter. And it's also gonna get to our thoughts. And I mentioned that before. Our thoughts, that's where we have so much choice. We get to choose our thoughts, our thoughts drive our beliefs, and then from our beliefs come our actions. And so, if we're not dealing with our beliefs, if we're not dealing with our thoughts, our actions are gonna stay the same. Our behaviors are not gonna change. Right. Um, and so it's gonna feel slow at first, yeah. But slow is good if this means lasting change. I want something that's gonna last me into my next decade and the next one, and I don't know how many I have left after that. But I I want something that's gonna last. I've done all the shortcuts and they don't last.

SPEAKER_00 21:26

Yeah, and sometimes the things I have done to get to the end goal faster of like shape shifting have actually been to the detriment of something God wanted to work on with me. It's like I've my focus has shifted to externals, which takes me right out of you know, intimacy with Him because I'm no longer caring so much about what's happening in my heart and my mind. I'm just like, I just want to see the numbers change. I just want to see, well, no, that's I don't want to see the numbers change. I want to. I mean, not nearly as much as I want to see my character develop into a more Christ-like character. Anyway, uh, if you've had questions, listener, you're not behind, you're not derailed because of your questions, you can say them to us or to others, and that's a good process to be in. You're not missing it, but you're engaging, and that's really what we hope for for you. That and your intimacy with God.

SPEAKER_01 22:28

Yes. And we want you to feel free to keep asking and keep exploring, keep bringing your whole self into this journey. Your mind, your heart, your body, bring it all.

SPEAKER_00 22:41

Yeah, we just want to close this episode out with a little bit of a prayer. Um, Jesus, thank you that you're not intimidated by our questions. Thank you that you invite us to come honestly to wrestle, to wonder, and to learn and explore and discover.

SPEAKER_01 22:58

Lord, would you lead each listener into deeper understanding, not just in their minds, but in their experience of you. Thank you, Jesus. Amen.

SPEAKER_00 23:09

Amen.

SPEAKER_01 23:10

Thanks for joining us. We are so glad that you've been here today, and we would love to invite you to our next episode of Revelation Within. Bye bye. See you next time.