Welcome And A Little Silliness

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Hi, and welcome to our podcast, Revelation Within on the Go. I'm Heidi Milesma Epperson, one of your hosts, and the owner and lead coach of the Revelation Within Ministry.

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And I'm Christina Motley, your other host, also a Revelation Within coach, and Heidi's partner in all things Revelation Within. We are so happy to invite you to join us for this episode of Revelation Within.

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I don't know what makes me laugh every time.

SPEAKER_00 0:40

I know, every single time. It's just kind of a release or something. It's like so good.

SPEAKER_02 0:45

That's what I'm thinking. It's I get to be silly.

SPEAKER_00 0:48

Yeah, it's good to be silly. It's good to be silly. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 0:51

Especially with life being so non-silly. Anyway.

Why Embodiment Sounds So Weird

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Non-silly. Non-silly. Speaking of non-silly. Today we're beginning a brand new non-silly series. But we are going to get silly when we have our intro. Maybe other times too.

SPEAKER_02 1:11

Yeah, probably, hopefully. And this series is probably going to take us places that might feel a little unfamiliar at first, maybe even a little uncomfortable. Sorry. But we're going to talk about something that, to be honest with you, I have been struggling with. And so, you know, that's where the rubber hits the road. I often need to talk about these sorts of things and that are going on in my life with somebody who is going to talk about it with you all. And it's the topic of living embodied. What is that? Living embodied. I don't know. Words like embodiment make me think of stories like the headless horseman who is the Halloween or something. So before any listener turns this off because it's don't turn it off. Or like something pulled from a um one of those woo-woo wellness retreats or psychology textbook. Just stay with us for a minute, I hope. Yeah. Yeah. Because what we're actually talking about is something that I found in my own quest to understand it profoundly biblical. Yes. What? Yeah, what? It's not trendy. It's not new age, and it's not self-focused. It's not all about me. But it's actually something God designed from the very beginning, which is a good place to start. Yeah, it is.

Disconnection Numbness And Pretending

SPEAKER_01 2:55

I think there's a song about that. Anyway, um, you know, thinking about what you said, Heidi, and just um starting out here, the truth is many of us have been living disconnected lives. What is it?

SPEAKER_02 3:14

Yeah, see, that's the word people can connect with.

SPEAKER_01 3:17

Yeah, disconnect. Well, they could disconnect with it. Disconnect with the word disconnect. Disconnect with yes, disconnecting from what? Well, from what about from our bodies, from our emotions, from what's happening in the present moment in our lives, and sometimes even the life that God has given us. I mean, this is this is something that happens a lot, especially when life isn't silly but hard, really hard. And you know, we don't just get there overnight. There is a process, it um it takes time, and for many of us, it begins as a need to survive.

SPEAKER_02 4:00

Yeah, yeah. I know for me, there have been really long seasons where I realize I'm just numb. I'm not present in my life, I'm not noticing my feelings. In fact, I'm actively trying not to recognize my feelings where I haven't been aware or willing to be aware of what's happening inside of me. I might be coping or managing, but it's more like pushing through. It really is. It's not really living, and it's not the abundant life that Jesus came to give me and you. We see in John chapter 10, verse 10, where Jesus gives us, came to give us abundant life. And a lot of times I haven't had either the language to talk about it, or I haven't had anybody who won't look at me like I'm a nutcase, or it's like I'm not present in my own life. Well, what does that mean? And really that, yeah, that experience is a kind of for lack of a better term, it's a kind of disembodied living, you know? But a really good place to look for information that matters is the scriptures, of course.

SPEAKER_01 5:18

Yeah, that's a really, really good place to look. But you know, I was thinking as you were talking, I was thinking, what does this look like in my life? For me, it looks like pretending. Oh, for yeah, for me, it looks a little different. I'm so good at pretending. No, but you know, what I mean, really, I was an elementary school teacher for almost 30 years, teaching young kids. And do those teachers feel happy and excited every moment of every day. No, but you learn, you learn to be on, right? Quote unquote on. It is a big performance. I only four years in it was a performance. Yeah, and I mean, I loved it. It's I'm not I'm not knocking it. I loved it. But when you are in front of people, it's other professions too, certainly. Yeah. I mean, I was thinking the other day, I was in the infusion center, you know, getting an infusion in the hospital, and I thought about the nurses. You know, most of them are on. There were a couple ones that were a little grumpier, but or more serious. But for the most part, hey, how are you? It's so good to see you. How are things going? Oh, I I'm I'm happy to be here with you when who knows what's going on in their personal lives. Maybe they had a big fight with their husband in the morning, but they still have to show up with a smile. And so sometimes for me, I do that with my life. I show up to my life and I'm just trying to keep going, but I'm really disconnected and I'm really pretending that everything is okay and I'm not okay. Um, so for me, it looks a little more like that, I think. It seems really harmless to pretend. It seems like, you know what, this is no big deal. I can slap a smile on my face and give my neighbor a hug, even though I'm ready to completely fall apart. You know, whatever it is. Yeah, it seems harmless. It seems almost valiant. It seems godly, right? It seems like, oh, this is this is what I'm called to do. And I think I used to believe that lie. I think I believed it for a long time that God was calling me to be that person that's always okay and fine, everything's fine. I got this, but that is not what He's calling us to. It's not honest, it's not integrity. No, and to be honest, it's really destructive to stay there for a long time. It destroys, and I think that the enemy loves that, it destroys ourselves, sort of.

SPEAKER_02 8:12

I mean, when you think about it, it's denying my experience so that I can give other people what I think they want. For me, it's it can also be a form of controlling others because if I tell you what's really going on with me, you might reject me, you might run the other way, you might look at me cross-eyed as though I've grown through an eyeball or something. And what I really want is for you to be okay in my not okay-ness, you know, right.

Ten Scriptures That Ground Embodiment

SPEAKER_01 8:42

Yes, that's well said. That's well said, even though it feels kind of confusing, but it's true. It's like, are you a safe person? Are you okay with my struggling? Um, and if you're not, well, what are we gonna do about that? Right? So yeah, but I found that when I pretend for too long, things get worse and worse for me on the inside. Yeah, it's destructive, it's um, it's uh it gets worse and worse. It doesn't get better and better. You would think it would get better and better. You'd think, oh, this is good, this is gonna be good because it's gonna, I'm pretending that everything's okay. And so it will be okay, but that doesn't happen. No, so so let's begin here. Did God design us to live this way, disconnected from our bodies? Is that God's design? No, no, no, no, no, and and how do we know that? Well, from the very beginning, scripture shows us something quite different, and we're gonna look at that starting today. The first thing that we see in the word of God about this is that we were created as embodied beings. Don't get weirded out by the language we use, okay? Just embodied. Yeah, okay, stay with us. Genesis 2, verse 7 says, Then the Lord God formed the man of dust from the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living creature. Okay, so God did not create us as floating spirits. Sometimes I kind of think that would have been cool, but no, he he formed a body and breathed spirit into it. So, what does that mean? We're we're not just spiritual, we're not just physical, we're actually integrated beings, body and spirit together. Okay, so living embodied is not optional, it's how we were created to live. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 11:02

The second point that we find in scripture is our bodies matter to God, and we have, of course, in our ministry talk about this quite a bit, but um, we're gonna take it in a different direction, sort of. First Corinthians 6, 19 and 20. Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you? You are not your own, for you were bought with a price. So glorify God in your body. And we want to notice, I mean, it's important, not just glorify God in your thoughts, not just glorify God spiritually, but it says in this passage to glorify God in your body. What? What does that mean? Your body is not an obstacle to your walk with God or your spiritual life. In fact, it is part of your worship. Wow.

SPEAKER_01 11:58

Wow. Wow, is right. So the third thing that we see in scripture is that Jesus came in a body. He came in a body, you know. When he came, he wasn't just floating around as a spirit, he came in a body. In John uh chapter one, verse 14, we read, and the word became flesh and dwelt among us. So God did not save us from embodiment, he actually entered into it. Jesus lived, he was he was hungry, he was tired, he was present, he was aware, he did it all. He touched people, he wept, he withdrew to rest. We see that all over the New Testament. Yeah, Jesus was fully God and He was also fully embodied. Wow.

SPEAKER_02 12:56

I don't know about you, but that sprains my brain.

SPEAKER_01 12:58

But it does, it's so good. It's this is so good. This is exactly what I need to hear, Heidi.

unknown 13:05

Really?

SPEAKER_02 13:06

The fourth thing we see in in the scriptures is we are called to present our bodies to God. Romans 12:1 tells us this in no uncertain terms. Present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship. You know, this is so important. Our worship is not detached from our physical lives, not at all. It's not just right, you know, we're not just singing kumbaya in our heads. Think about a worship service or a worship time. People use their bodies to worship God. And throughout the Old and New Testament, we see expressions of worship, whether it's with your voice, with your hands, kneeling down. Um, just there's all kinds of ways we use our bodies to worship. The bottom line is our worship is not detached from our physical lives or our physical bodies, it is expressed through our bodies. And I'm gonna give another example. This is the fifth one in scripture where we see God cares about our physical needs. Yes. Think about it, it's in 1 Kings 19, and I think 18 has some of the story in it. Elijah had just been involved in this major spiritual battle against the prophets of Baal. You might remember the ones where he, you know, they were taunting each other, and Elijah was taunting the prophets of Baal. Come on, call on your God. Maybe he's on the toilet, maybe he's on vacation. And then Elijah poured water all over his sacrifice and burnt offerings, and God consumed it all. I mean, there was water in a ditch going all the way around, too. It was a huge victory for God's prophet. But after that big victory, and I don't know if you can relate to this, I can. After that great big victory spiritually, Elijah ran off into the wilderness. He actually asked God to let him die. I love how real the scriptures are. In first Kings 19, 5 to 8, we're told that Elijah lay down under a bush and fell asleep. And all at once an angel touched him and said, Get up and eat. He looked around, and there by his head was some bread baked over hot coals and a jar of water. He ate and drank, yeah. And then he laid down again. Oh and then in verse 7, the angel of the Lord came back a second time and touched him and said, Get up and eat, for the journey is too much for you. So he got up and ate and drank. Strengthened by that food, he traveled 40 days and 40 nights until he reached Horeb, the mountain of God. Wow. Notice here though, God didn't start with a lecture like, well, Elijah, I gave you this ginormous victory with against the prophets of Baal. So get your act together, get thee up and go hither. No, he didn't do that. Instead, he gave Elijah sleep. That's a physical need. He gave him food, a physical need, gave him rest. I love that.

SPEAKER_01 16:17

I love that. I love that. Right. Love that. Never really thought about that in this story. Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_02 16:25

It's so cool. Sometimes the most spiritual thing that God does is meet us in our physical state, our physical need, our physical lack, whatever it might be.

SPEAKER_01 16:37

That's profound. I just think that's profound. Yeah. Cool. Um, something we don't really talk about very much, I think. Um, okay, so number six, what else do we see in the scriptures about this? Jesus actually noticed bodies. Okay, Jesus noticed bodies. Matthew 9, 36. Hang in there with us. When he saw the crowds, he had compassion for them. He saw them, he noticed them, he noticed their condition. Embodied living includes seeing what is actually present, maybe even engaging with what is present, seeing and engaging, noticing, being a part of what's happening right there in front of you. Okay, and here's the seventh one. We are fearfully and wonderfully made. And this is, of course, from Psalm 139, verses 13 and 14. For you formed my inward parts, you knitted me together in my mother's womb. I am fearfully and wonderfully made. I don't know if you've ever done any knitting, Heidi. Have you done knitting?

unknown 17:55

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 17:56

In a class in high school where I was required to.

SPEAKER_01 18:00

You know what? Knitting is not easy. It's not easy. No, and when I think about God actually knitting, he could have used a different word, really. There could be, I don't know exactly what that word is here originally, but I think about that. You know, God actually knitting me together in my mother's womb. It takes time, it takes intention. Our bodies are not random, we are intentionally formed by God, fearfully and wonderfully.

SPEAKER_02 18:35

That's amazing. The eighth thing that we're gonna highlight that we see in scripture regarding this whole idea of being embodied is that God very clearly wants us not to disregard our bodies. First Thessalonians 5 23 says, May your whole spirit and soul and body be kept blameless. Scripture doesn't separate one part from another. Spirit, soul, and body. Otherwise, you wouldn't have said may your whole spirit, soul, and body be kept blameless.

SPEAKER_01 19:17

Right, it's right there. It's right there. Okay, number nine. Even our weakness is experienced in the body. Yes. Yeah. Oh my goodness. So 2 Corinthians 4 16. Though our outer self is wasting away, our inner self is being renewed day by day. So there's an acknowledgement here of the physical reality of what's happening with our bodies. We're not denying, you know, we're not seeing in scripture that there's a denial of what's happening with our physical bodies.

SPEAKER_02 19:53

Right.

SPEAKER_01 19:53

That's powerful too.

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The tenth one, and this is the last one we'll highlight today. Jesus' resurrection body was physical. It wasn't just a disembodied spirit. Right, right. Luke 24, 39 says, you know, this is where Jesus shows up after the resurrection, and he's talking to Thomas, I believe, in this passage. See my hands, see my feet, that it is I myself. Touch me and see. For a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have. Ooh, that's so cool. Yeah. After the resurrection, Jesus didn't appear as some vague spiritual presence or a disembodied spirit. He didn't. No, he didn't. He invited them to look at his body, to touch his body, and to recognize him physically. And just a few verses later, we read in verses 42 to 43, they gave him a piece of broiled fish, and he took it from then don't you just love it.

Resurrection Bodies And Real Suffering

SPEAKER_01 21:05

Yeah, and why is that even in there that they gave him a piece of broiled fish? That's quite specific, you know. I mean, that's again, it's it's like, why is that in there? Because the reason Christ had a real tangible physical body.

SPEAKER_02 21:22

I think there's something here that God wants us to recognize. And and the only reason why you know we're bringing it to the table this week and and for the next three sessions after this is because it's a big part of what we do when we are disappointed with our bodies, when we are wishing things in our lives could be different. I've been struggling with that lately myself, with all the different things going on. My best friend has had a really aggressive form of breast cancer and all the treatment. My husband has had prostate cancer and surgery, and my son has had all kinds. I and it's like my sister too. I forgot about that. Cancer's been hitting her as well. But anyway, I don't want to be here. I don't want to be here for this. And God is calling me to be here. He's calling me to be present in my life and in my body for my life. So it matters more than we realize. And the fact that Jesus was resurrected in a physical body does as well. He didn't abandon his body when he rose from the grave. It it seems so bizarre to us, maybe. He didn't say, now I'm finally free from my physical body. Right.

SPEAKER_01 22:40

No, he didn't. You would think that he would. Right? I mean, yeah, you would think that he wouldn't. And in some ways, it again, it feels like it's easier to just not deal with it, to know, to, to just, it's easier for me, you know, when you talk about, well, my best friend has had this whole this, you know, awful breast cancer, and and it's me, and I have, and there's part of me that just wants to immediately jump in and say, Heidi, I'm fine, I'm okay, everything's okay, I'm fine, I'm fine, I'm fine. I, because that seems in the moment to feel better. Right. Than to go through it really present with what's what you're feeling, what's going on, what's happening in my body. Um, and over this, it's been, it's gonna be a year, this whole cancer journey. And I think about how much have I been present for? How did I survive it? And if I'm not present with these things happening in my life, what's the consequence of not being present? You know, what happens to me when I'm deadening myself on the inside? When I'm, you know, what's happening to me? There is uh a pretty severe consequence.

SPEAKER_02 23:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:57

So definitely anyway, just thinking about that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:02

So Jesus kept his body after his resurrection. It was transformed, it was glorified, but still he was in it. It's still embodied, which means the the body is not temporary or in a not in a disposable sense. It's not right like, okay, jettison my body, I'm all done with that. Shake it off, right? It's not something we're meant to escape. And it is something God intends to restore and redeem.

SPEAKER_01 24:33

Well, and here's another thought. Without our bodies, we wouldn't be here. Right? We wouldn't be alive, we wouldn't even have a life, you know. So often we're kind of wishing away our bodies or parts of our bodies, or this part that's wrong, or this part that we don't like, or but it's like without our bodies, we wouldn't even be here. We wouldn't be alive. Yeah, that's pretty important.

SPEAKER_02 25:03

So even after the resurrection, Jesus was still embodied, not limited, not broken, but fully alive in a redeemed body. And that tells us something really, really profound. Are you listening? I'm ready. I am ready. I'm so ready. God's plan is not to rescue us from our bodies, but to redeem us as embodied people. Wow. I'm gonna say that again. Say that yeah, God's plan is not to rescue us from our bodies, but to redeem us as embodied people. Our bodies are the containers that carry us through life. Right. Yeah. I mean, it's it's pretty significant when you think about it.

What Living Embodied Means

SPEAKER_01 25:54

It is, it is. Um, so when we talk about living embodied, here is what we mean biblically. Um, so it means being present in the life that God has given you, being present in the life God has given me, noticing what's happening in your body without condemnation. Oh, that's a hard one for so many.

SPEAKER_02 26:17

It's hard, but it's a good one.

SPEAKER_01 26:19

It's so important, it's so good. We've been so critical of ourselves for so long. Noticing what is happening without condemnation, allowing your physical life to be a part of your spiritual life, not trying to constantly pull it apart, separate it, allowing our physical life to be apart, and then living as an integrated person, not as someone who's totally fragmented. This is it's not self-focus, that's not what this is. This is stewardship.

SPEAKER_02 26:56

That's that's huge. This is stewardship. So, why this matters, um, really, because when we are not living embodied, we tend to see if you see yourself in any of these things. Yeah, we have just four of them we'll mention, but when we're not living embodied, we tend to ignore what's actually going on inside. We override signals God designed. Right. We use counterfeit comforts to cope, and we disconnect from reality. I'm gonna say that list again and see if you see yourself in any of these. When we live disembodied, we tend to ignore what's actually going on inside and sometimes ignore what's going on around us. We override signals God designed, use counterfeit comforts to cope, and we disconnect from reality. And what that all leads to is a big struggle. Not because we're broken beyond repair, because that's a lie. We are not broken beyond repair, but because we're living out of alignment with how God made us. Yeah.

Simple Awareness And Next Steps

SPEAKER_01 28:17

Well, and what I think about too when I when I'm looking at this list, thinking about the list that you just shared, those those things they don't get better, they get worse. They actually get worse. So, like for example, when I'm in that place of pretending, my need for counterfeit comforts, it gets worse and worse. And I am more drawn to food and social media and checking out with movies or whatever it is, it gets worse and it feels overwhelming almost. And I become more of a needy person, a person who needs more and more comfort and who's not getting it, um, not getting real comfort. So, yeah, that's just so I think so important to think about.

SPEAKER_02 29:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:06

So for today, we just want to invite you, and Heidi and I are also inviting ourselves. Yes.

SPEAKER_03 29:14

I need this.

SPEAKER_01 29:15

We're inviting ourselves into simple awareness. We want you to ask yourself, if you will, what is happening in my body right now? What's happening? Not to fix it, not to judge it, not to condemn it or change it, just to notice because awareness is where transformation begins. We just want to start with a little step.

SPEAKER_02 29:42

Yeah, just awareness. Psalm 1611 says, You Lord, make known to me the path of life. In your presence, there is fullness of joy. This isn't someday, this isn't somewhere else. It's in his presence here now. In the next episode, we're gonna talk about the ways we've learned to live disembodied and what that looks like, what it means, and why those patterns, though certainly they're understandable, don't lead to true life. But for now, just begin to notice. You don't have to force anything. Believe me, if you want to notice, you will invite God into it. If I am living, not being present in my body. You don't have to fix anything, just come back into the life God has already given you. He has so much grace from us there.

SPEAKER_01 30:43

If anything that we shared today resonated with you, you might want to share it with a friend and send them the link. Um, we would love to hear from you as well. We are so glad that you've been here today, and we hope that you'll join us for our next podcast episode at Revelation Within.

SPEAKER_02 31:10

We'll see you next time. Bye for now.