SPEAKER_01 0:01

Hi, and welcome to our podcast, Revelation Within on the Go. I'm Heidi Finals Epperson, one of your hosts, and I'm the owner and lead coach of the Revelation Within Ministry.

SPEAKER_00 0:13

And I'm Christina Motley, your other host, also a Revelation Within coach, and Heidi's partner in all things Revelation Within. We are so happy to invite you to join us for this episode of Revelation Within. That was one of our best ones. I love that.

SPEAKER_01 0:39

Oh, well, welcome back. Welcome back. Um, in our last episode, we began laying a foundation for what it means to live embodied, and more importantly, why this is not a trendy idea, but a deeply biblical one. If you have not yet listened to that uh episode, please go back and check it out because we give like 10 scriptures that speak to this very thing. And I'm just gonna, by every view, we saw through scripture that God created us as integrated beings, body and spirit together.

SPEAKER_00 1:18

Okay, also um, we saw in scripture that our bodies are not obstacles to spirituality, but actually part of our worship. Yes, and then we also saw in scripture Jesus Himself lived fully embodied, and even in the resurrection, the body is not discarded, Jesus' body, but actually redeemed.

SPEAKER_01 1:46

So we're not adding something new to the faith in any way, shape, or form. We're actually returning to something God designed from the beginning. And last week we started in the book of Genesis, didn't we?

What Disembodied Living Looks Like

SPEAKER_00 1:59

Yeah, I think we did. And yet, you know what? If we're honest, most of us are not living that way.

SPEAKER_01 2:09

Yeah, yeah. So the truth is, if we're gonna name the reality, call it out, many of us are living what we might call, are you ready for this? Yes, what we might call disembodied lives. Oh dear. I know, right? And and let me just say what this means is it means we're not fully present. Anybody relate to that? Not fully aware. Anybody relate to that? Not fully engaged with what is happening inside of us or with people close by. We tend to do here's some examples of what we do when we're living in a disembodied way. Um, we override hunger or we override fullness, we ignore our exhaustion, we disconnect from emotions, we stay busy so we don't have to feel. And some of us think of this in a noble way like it's a righteousness of some sort, because I'm doing things that I need to do or that are good, you know, serving a church, for instance. There's nothing wrong with serving at church, but am I doing that so I don't have to be present to the people in my life? Um, another example might be to turn to something, anything, to quiet what's going on inside, so I can just stifle what my heart and mind and soul are saying they need, or that God's spirit inside of me says I need to be attuned to. Yeah. And often we don't even realize we're doing it. Can you relate to that?

SPEAKER_00 3:43

Yes, you can? Yes, yeah, because if we if we do it enough, uh, if we live that way long enough, it becomes our kind of our normal. It becomes kind of this is what my reality is, this is how I live, this is how I'm gonna make it through. But we talked about last time how things actually get worse when we live this way. It's destructive, it actually takes away from our lives, it drains us.

SPEAKER_01 4:10

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 4:11

And for me, so much of that is about pretending that everything is okay when it's really not.

SPEAKER_01 4:19

Yeah, Christina's a really good pretender.

SPEAKER_00 4:23

Well, thank you, Heidi.

SPEAKER_01 4:26

I on the other hand, am good at being shut down. I just shut down. There have been seasons in my life where I might have been doing all the right things, but I wasn't really there. I wasn't really present. I was functioning, I was showing up, right? Even serving the Lord, but internally, disconnected, numb in a lot of places, overwhelmed in other places, and then constantly trying to manage what I didn't understand. And I just have to say, I've been going through a season like this for the last 10 years.

SPEAKER_00 5:03

Oh my goodness, that's not true.

SPEAKER_01 5:06

It is true though, um, in so many ways. I mean, really, it's like I want to come awake, I want to uh tell my heart to beat again, I've been saying, and that's it's true for me. I really feel like I have been going from one state of numbness to another in many ways. It's like, you know, here's the thing. I just really have to remind myself of this. When a person is numb or chooses to be numb or to stay numb, you can't just be numb to the things you don't want to experience in your life, like the sadness and the heartache of maybe a family member's um, you know, negativity or a diagnosis. You can't just be numb to one thing. I mean, think about it. If you could, then a dentist would, when he goes in to, he or she goes in to numb you up for a dental procedure, he could be very specific to get just that nerve that you want to be deadened. But it numbs your whole mouth. Right.

SPEAKER_00 6:08

That's exactly right. That's a good example.

SPEAKER_01 6:10

Yeah, it happens by our lives too. When we try to be numb to this or that, we can't just be numb to those things that are hard. We're numb to the things that are wonderful and good and that could potentially be joy-infusing. Um, and so we we want to not do that if at all possible.

Numbing Costs You Joy Too

SPEAKER_00 6:30

Yeah, yeah, so good. Okay, so let's talk about why this happens. And here's what we want to say so clearly at this point. We don't learn disembodiment because we're weak. We learn it in in many ways because it worked. It's worked for us. It's something that feels like it's helping in the moment. You know, at some point, disconnecting helped us get through something hard. Heidi and I call those impossible days.

SPEAKER_02 7:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:04

Sometimes we disconnect just to get through, just to push through an impossible time. Um, at some point, disconnecting helped us keep going when we didn't have support. Um, you know, think about those times where you just feel like I'm on my own, or you know, you just have too much at once. At some point, disconnecting might have helped you through that. Or what about helping us to function in environments where feeling wasn't safe? It wasn't safe to feel, and so we just disconnected, we just turned it off. And so for some, you know, that might include deeper wounds or trauma. For others, it may simply be years of pressure, expectations, chronic stress, or learning to ignore ourselves in order to take care of everything else. So then what do we do when we're feeling that way, when we're in those situations? We adapt, we learn to push through, we learn to shut down, we learn to distract ourselves, to numb our feelings, we learn to control, and those patterns become kind of normal after a while. It's like, oh, this is how I do it, this is how I live, this is how I survive, this is fine, this works, right?

SPEAKER_01 8:31

Right, but here's the problem. I mean, think about this for a moment. What helped us survive does not lead us to into life, really. I mean, no way. Um, and and more importantly, scripturally speaking, disconnection is not God's way, it's just not, and we don't say this by means of hoping to condemn ourselves or anybody, um, because you know, we we can't condemn ourselves into any kind of positive change, it's not sustainable, even if it does change us, it just makes us more miserable.

SPEAKER_00 9:06

So well, that's Heidi and I are talking out of our own experience. So we're with you in it. I mean, we get it.

SPEAKER_01 9:15

So let's look again at what scripture shows us. And you know, number one, we are called to live awake and aware. I love that. Ephesians 5, 14 and 15 says, awake, oh sleeper, and Christ will shine on you. Look carefully then how you walk. Really, when you think about it, disembodied living is often a kind of sleepwalking through life.

SPEAKER_00 9:41

Sleepwalking, yeah. That's a good example, good description.

SPEAKER_01 9:45

The scripture calls us to wake up and pay attention, and it calls us to walk carefully and intentionally.

Why Disconnection Starts And Sticks

SPEAKER_00 9:57

Wow. Yes, that makes so much sense to me. Okay, so ignoring our inner world, it also leads to a whole lot of confusion. Proverbs 423 says, keep your heart with all vigilance, for from it flow the springs of life. I mean, that's that's big, that's important, that's everything. If we are disconnected from what's happening inside of us, we can't steward it. We can't take care of it. We can't steward it. And what we don't attend to often begins to lead us. We're not even aware that that's happening, but it does, doesn't it? Right. It does, it changes everything, it seeps into every area of our lives.

SPEAKER_01 10:46

In Matthew 11, 28 to 29, we see the third thing that we want to address. Jesus invites us into awareness, not avoidance. Could you just see Jesus saying here?

SPEAKER_00 10:59

No, just avoid that. Yeah, Christina, just you know, can you fake it till you make it? That's probably not gonna happen. It's just not, it's just not the way he rolls. It really is not.

SPEAKER_01 11:14

You know, he has something that he wants to do in our lives and for us and with us and through us. So Matthew 11, 28 to 29 says, Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, take my yoke upon you, and the best news, and you will find rest for your souls. Right. You know, notice this. Jesus doesn't say just ignore that burden, just ignore it. He says, Bring it and come honestly, come aware.

SPEAKER_00 11:50

Yeah, so this is this is kind of amazing. In the word of God, we're actually warned about numbing and escaping. We're actually warned. It's it's in there. First Peter 5, verse 8. Be sober-minded, be watchful. And I'm I'm thinking about be sober-minded. I'm thinking what the opposite of that looks like. Right? Well, it's like I'm I'm fuzzy, I'm foggy, I can't think right, I'm not really there. I'm just kind of in my own world, and it's kind of all about me, to be honest. That would be the opposite of being sober-minded. Sober-minded isn't just about substances, you know, it's about being clear and present and aware, not dulled, not checked out, not disconnected. I just think about relationships. Like, what does that mean in relationships? When I am in a place of not being sober-minded, what's happening to the people around me that are trying to engage with me? I mean, it's like, wow, I'm feeling a little convicted.

SPEAKER_01 13:01

Oh my goodness, it really kind of is, though. What will we do with that? What do we do with that? Uh when we're convicted. Ooh. Right. Well, because I don't really want to talk about that. I'll talk about the thing. Striving and self-reliance keep us disconnected.

unknown 13:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:22

I mean, think about it. Think too. I mean, if you strive and you're successful, you end up kind of being puffed up and prideful sometimes. Um, and and if you depend on yourself, if you're self-reliant, you it's it is. It's kind of this, I don't need God, I can keep going in my own way, or you get all self-deprecating. And is that glorifying him? Is that gonna foster closeness in your relationship with him? I doubt it.

SPEAKER_00 13:52

Right. Well, and when would when I when I mention conviction, I mean loving conviction from the Holy Spirit, not condemnation, that's not of the Lord. We know it's just that loving nudge from the spirit that says, Hey, Christina, have you thought about this lately? Let's talk about this a little bit.

Scripture Call To Wake Up

SPEAKER_01 14:13

So, striving and self-reliance keep us disconnected. And Galatians 5 to 17 urges us walk by the spirit, for the desires of the flesh are against the spirit. Wow. Yeah, when we live in constant striving, we stop listening to the spirit, we stop listening to the leadership of the Lord, and we often override signals that he gives us that would show us where to go, how to get there, and so on. Um we override our needs and we override the prompts that walk in and step with the spirit help us to see and follow. We begin living from effort instead of attunement to the Holy Spirit of God.

SPEAKER_00 15:00

Well, and that just happens, it's so subtle, isn't it? It is it's so subtle. Sometimes it's like, no, what that's not happening. Uh I don't think so. Is it? Wait a minute, maybe. Well, um, it's subtle, it's hard to see that sometimes, especially when we get used to living that way. It's hard to see it. So God desires truth in our inner being. Psalm 516 says, Behold, you delight in truth in the inward being, not performance, not pretending. There's there's mine, that one's mine, not pushing through. That one's mine. Actually, all of these are performance, pretending, pushing through. Truth, we're talking about truth in the inward places.

SPEAKER_01 15:54

Yeah, that's what I mean. We could continue that list. You delight in truth and inner inward being from Psalm 51.6. I mean, when I'm just camping in my recliner for hours on end, I'm denying the reality that there are things that God has given me that He wants me to do. It might be as simple as you run the vacuum on the carpet in the bedroom. I mean, really, those things are calls on my life to keep things um clean, to um love on my husband and my kids if they come by. Um, I'm called by God to do these things and recognizing truth in the inward being means being attuned to that as well. So when we talk about disembodiment, we're not talking about something abstract or the legend of sleepy hollow. We're talking about real patterns, like numbing with food, numbing with screens, yeah, or busyness. I mean, and this is tricky because busyness so often looks noble and righteous and good. Yeah, um, ignoring physical cues, you know, like ouch, that hurts. Avoiding my emotions, you know, again, uh, there's emotions I don't want to feel. And those emotions don't just go away. They're just inside of me.

SPEAKER_00 17:27

You would think that they would. They that's the that's the goal, but nope. They get bigger, bigger and bigger.

Sober Minded Presence And Conviction

SPEAKER_01 17:35

Yeah, and they bite us in the rear end, I think. A lot of times through something. Sometimes it's a physical body thing. I mean, here's the thing: if we are embodied, whether we want to be or not, our physical bodies might respond to something that we're denying or not letting ourselves feel, or whatever. Living in constant distraction is another thing, another pattern that might cause us to live out that disembodiment, that perspective. I don't want to connect with who I am or what I'm my life is. Um, striving instead of listening to the Lord. And again, those patterns are all understandable.

SPEAKER_00 18:13

Yes, they are not where life is found.

SPEAKER_01 18:16

They're not.

SPEAKER_00 18:18

They're not, they're not, they're really not. So Jesus shows us a different way, a better way, a much, much better way. If we look at the life of Jesus, he was never frantic or disconnected or unaware. He noticed when he was tired and he withdrew to get rest and time with his father in heaven. He noticed people, everything about people, all the details about people. He noticed and he responded with compassion. And he also noticed his own body when he was hungry, thirsty, exhausted, cold, whatever he needed. He noticed, he stayed present, even in suffering. He stayed fully present. He was fully engaged, he was fully aware, he was fully surrendered.

SPEAKER_01 19:16

I don't know. I I was just thinking as you were sharing this, picturing Jesus, and and for me, the tozen series has been just a delightful way of imagining in certain situations. But picturing Jesus in any of the situations that he's in in the Gospels and him staring off into space, you know, unblinkingly, and somebody saying something and saying, Jesus, Jesus, are you with us? What is what I look like when I'm disengaged, when I am disembodied. Um, I can't picture Jesus, you know, being that way. Right, right. Well, we have an invitation for you. I mean, really, where does all of this talk about being disembodied or choosing not to be disembodied leave us? Not with a new rule, please no, please no, not with something to fix, please no, but with an invitation.

SPEAKER_00 20:15

Yeah, an invitation. We want to invite you. We feel like Jesus is inviting us to just begin to notice, to begin to be aware. Where do I tend to check out? What am I doing? What's happening? What am I feeling? What's going on there when I tend to check out? What about where do I override what I'm feeling? Again, what's what's happening? What's the situation? What's going on? And then where do I rush past which actually is happening inside of me? Not to judge, not to analyze, but just to become aware.

SPEAKER_01 21:01

Good questions. Oh, but one of the things we want to be sure that as we continue on this journey, and we've got two more of these podcasts left of this series, awareness is not the end goal, it's a doorway. It really is. John 10 10 says, I came that they may have life and have it abundantly, yeah. Not a managed life, not a numbed life, not a disconnected life, an abundant life. And that life, it's gonna be lived right here, right here in the body God gave you, not the body you're hoping to have six months down the road or whatever, but right now, the body God gave you right now, in the moment you are in, right now.

Striving Self Reliance And Inner Truth

SPEAKER_00 21:55

Yes. Okay, so in the next episode, we're going to begin stepping into. What it actually looks like practically to return to embodied living, not perfectly, we're not worried about perfect, but faithfully. Um, for now, just begin to notice you don't have to force anything, you don't have to fix anything, just begin to come back into the life that God has already given you. And Heidi, I love what you said about this being a door, it's an open door, and sometimes the door it's it's ready and there's a a way for us to go, but we just stay in the same place because we're afraid. So, just the first step is just awareness. That's all, just awareness. Um, and I think that's a really good place to begin.

SPEAKER_01 22:48

Yeah, well, thanks for joining us this week.

SPEAKER_00 22:53

We're so glad that you've been here today. Yes, we would love for you to come back and join us for our next episode of Revelation Within. See you next time. Bye. Bye bye.