Welcome And Meet Michelle

SPEAKER_01 0:02

Hi and welcome to our podcast revelation within on the highest files, but efforts and one of the hellows and the other hosts uh revelation with a linear hollows also a revelation with a lot of people.

SPEAKER_02 0:43

Yay! One of our so excited, Michelle is with us today, and we're going to just pick her brain a little bit and hear from her about what God is up to in her life. Yay! Hi, Michelle. Hello, you beautiful lady. Oh, we need to start. That's a good way to start. Yeah. Yeah. But trying to get Michelle to come on to our leadership team because I just love her so much. And of course, the beautiful ladies, you know, that's always a great way to start.

SPEAKER_01 1:16

Yes. Yes. Yes, yes. We're so glad you're here, Michelle. We're so happy to be here. So honored with that.

SPEAKER_02 1:24

Um, all right.

Finding Thin Within Then Returning

SPEAKER_02 1:25

Well, tell us how you found us initially. How did you land at Revelation Within?

SPEAKER_00 1:31

Well, I this I landed, let me see. Let's go way, way back, shall we? Um, I I landed probably 20 years ago with Thin Within. I discovered Thin Within, uh, read the book, devoured the book, um, really had so much um just eye-opening, you know, victory and stuff around around my relationship with food and dieting. And uh at that time you could send away for uh, you know, after you read the book, you could do the 12-week course. And so I remember doing that and um and got the freedom that I wanted. Yeah and uh and then kind of decided that I was good, which is which is one of my, you know, that three, that three-letter phrase really, really has gotten me, you know, into trouble a lot in my life. But I I felt like I was good and I could kind of handle this on my own, and slowly but surely just walked away from following, you know, the guidelines and um and really following God as deeply as those that that teaching was leading me to. So yeah, fast forward to a year and a half ago, uh, I was once again desperate and feeling, you know, like I had no direction and I didn't have any control over my food, eating, or my body image. And I did a little search. Gee, I remembered this was wow, I remember that really helping me. You know, all those years ago, I had such peace. I wonder if they're still around. And looked up thin within, which led me to Revelation Within. Uh, and I um that's how I found you initially and kind of joined the group to give a nice 30-day trial, join the group and uh the rest of history, so to speak. Yay!

SPEAKER_01 3:21

Well, thank you, Lord. Yeah, yay! I know, and we've just been so blessed. I feel like you're such a dear friend, Michelle.

SPEAKER_02 3:32

Such a dear friend, a real gift to the ladies in our ministry and to us.

SPEAKER_01 3:36

Yes, oh my goodness, for sure. So, when you were

Praying For Peace With Food

SPEAKER_01 3:40

um doing that search, what were you looking for? What was like, ah, you know, I'm I'm looking for something. What was it?

SPEAKER_00 3:48

I was looking for peace with food. I mean, that's the easiest way for me to describe it. I was looking for peace with food because I had spent so much time, you know, really striving and grasping for control with food in my body. Uh, if I just do this, if I just follow this plan, if I, you know, throw myself into this. Um, and none of it really ever brought me the peace I was looking for. At times, uh, it would bring me maybe the body size I was looking for, or you know, the praise I thought I was looking for from my contemporaries and from people in my, you know, whatever groups I was in at the time. And uh, and I was really looking for peace with food. And I remember one morning just standing in my kitchen and going, okay, God, am I to be keto today? Am I to be a Weat Watcher? Am I to be an intermittent pastor? What do you want with me? You know, what do you want for me, God? Please help me. Yes, and you know, and he just gave me that scripture about peace. You know, my peace, I give you. I'm not gonna give as the world gives.

SPEAKER_01 4:58

Right.

SPEAKER_00 4:59

I want, you know, I want to give you peace. And he named a food item, you know, he said, just honey, just have some oatmeal. I love it. And we talked about that before. Like, I mean, for oatmeal to be, you know, a spiritual gift, I really felt gifted with just this simple answer, you know, and from there, that's where, that's where when I when I came into Revelation Within, you know, you had talked, you guys were talking about peace with food and the course that was being offered at the time or that was about to be offered was transforming grace. And I know that grace is undeserved favor. I know that I wanted the grace of God, especially, and I and I wanted to be transformed. Yes. So that's what I was looking for.

SPEAKER_01 5:43

Oh, I love it. And I can so relate.

SPEAKER_02 5:48

Well, and and what I think is awesome, and I just want to note it because if anybody is listening and they haven't yet done this, I hope they will. You knew that God wanted to be included in your pursuit of peace with food. And so asking

A Safe Place To Ask Questions

SPEAKER_02 6:05

him, what should I do today is even that's all that spirit-led eating and spirit-led living for sure.

SPEAKER_01 6:12

Yes, I know. I love it. And Michelle, I can so relate to standing in the kitchen and it's like, what am I gonna do now? What am I gonna try? I've tried everything. What do you want me to do? Should I have this over here? Should I have oh, just that that torture. I was in that same place for a very long time. So thank you for sharing that, Michelle. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:34

And the good news to all of us, and including the listeners, God never intended for food to torment us. He didn't put it on this planet to torment us, he intends for it to be a wonderful, good, and godly gift that fuels our bodies and delights us too. So, anyway, I'm so glad you girls discovered that that I did.

SPEAKER_01 6:59

Absolutely. I can't imagine my life without it now.

SPEAKER_02 7:03

Yeah. So, what have you found or discovered in your time with us? Since um you I take it you begin with transforming grace, which is a discovering peaceful eating course. Um yeah, so tell us what you have found or discovered in your time with us.

SPEAKER_00 7:22

What I found was a safe place to land, a non-judgmental, encouraging uh group of people. We're mostly women, I would say, but you know, a group of people that um that are just really wanting to seek God and and his view of things. And so I just I discovered that it was okay to want to discover, you know, to want to ask questions, to say a lot of a lot of the writings that uh that you do, Heidi, ask questions. And to me, that was so helpful. That you know, what is you know, in one of the uh mind renewal tools, what is true? God, what is true about this? And if I could, if I could ask myself that, it is it is it true that food some foods are bad and some foods are good? Is that true, God? You know, and then I have a place to go, which is scripture, which will tell me whether it's true or not. And now I myself, you know, have used certain scriptures to hold myself accountable or to hold other people accountable, you know, used um following my diet plan as a form of righteousness, all those good things, and so you know, and so having him even questioning that, gee, I thought, yes, you know, and at times I think at times I I was doing the right thing and I was following God's will for me, but how far it especially in the Transforming Grace uh series, how far was I letting my will and my striving get in the way of being able to surrender to God and his ultimate will for me? Yeah. Oh yeah, and so that I found permission, I think would probably be the best word. I found permission to ask these questions to look at where um what my motivations were, you know, and if they were uh if they were God's, you know, God's motivation for me too, and God's will for me too. Love that. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 9:22

Yeah, beautiful, beautiful.

SPEAKER_00 9:24

And let me just put a plug-in for you ladies or you people who have not taken the courses. They all have beautiful the books are beautiful, the graphics are beautiful, the way that you know, lots and lots of space to fill in with your notes and uh some of the books you can get directly um on Amazon when you take the courses, some of them you can print out, and now some of them you can just auto-fill on your computer, so it's accessible all the way around, and they're all just gorgeous to look at.

SPEAKER_01 9:53

So yes, thank you, Hyper to making those.

SPEAKER_00 9:56

They are amazing, they're beautiful. We need beauty in our lives, you know. And we're just part of it, it's even though it's really hard work, it can be really hard work. But when when it's packaged, you know, in in something that's so beautiful, it um it just draws me to it even more.

SPEAKER_01 10:13

It does, me too, me too. Love that, Michelle. So, Michelle, would you mind giving us a little bit of your background

Image Pressure And Early Food Memories

SPEAKER_01 10:20

with regard to food and eating or any other counterfeit comforts that you have struggled with?

SPEAKER_00 10:28

Yes, I'd be happy to. Um, I was I was raised uh with three sisters, and my mom was very focused on image. Uh, she ended up uh going to beauty school and becoming a beautician and owning her own shop. So that was kind of, you know, through no fault of her own. I believe sometimes that was just what she was taught that you know how we presented ourselves was really what was important and how we looked, and if all three of us girls, you know, looked pretty when we left the house and we wore matching clothes and all the things. So now I can look back and I can see, although, you know, there was nothing inherently bad in that, it set me up to think that the outward appearance was the most important. And if, you know, if that was good, if that looked good, then that was good. Um also in some of the courses, too, you go back through what what were some of your first memories with food, even happy ones, you know. And I remember with my sisters, um, we would we would gather all our money together on a Saturday morning and go and buy a box while my mom was at school or wherever she was, uh, of some sugary cereal and eat it while watching cartoons. So you know, that was fun, and now it's happy. And riding to uh uh thri the little thrifty uh um drugstore, you could get five cent scoops of ice cream. Yes, yeah, got those. Yeah, we would ride our bikes down and do that. So it that was really helpful to me because I I had really gotten into a pattern where I saw I was either good or bad with my eating. And so, number one, going back and looking at those things, uh, seeing that food is pleasurable, as Heidi had said earlier, that God did make it for our good was really helpful. And then I think just as the teen years went on and there was some um trauma and abuse in my in my past, that food became an escape. Food became A, an escape, um, and B a way to control my emotions, you know, if if I was focusing on food in my body, what I was eating, what I wasn't eating. Uh, I had some periods of bulimia in my life, which were, you know, a very painful time. Um but it also led me to, thank you. It also led me to into therapy and to look at why that was happening. And I think I was always around 20, 21 at that time. And that's when I feel like the dieting cycles really started. Okay, you know, clearly bulimia was a, you know, was a psychological disorder and something that I really needed to look at and stop. But then once that happened, then it was okay, clean, healthy eating. And I would do kind of what I said in the beginning, where I would, I would work really hard out of desperation for for whatever stage I was in, whether it was being overweight or being emotionally unstable, you know, and feeling really lost. I would work really hard, I would get where I felt like I needed to be, and I would get where I felt stable, and then I would say, I've got this. I can continue to just continue on where you were. And, you know, I think I probably gained and lost

Trauma, Bulimia, And Dieting Cycles

SPEAKER_00 13:45

the same 25 to 30 pounds six, five, six, seven times, you know, in my life. I'm 61 now. And um as I said before, that that period of time about 20 years ago when I found thin within, if I look back over all those periods of striving and all those periods of trying to get somewhere to feel good about myself, that was the one that kept that I kept in my mind that I kept coming back to as resonating as being inward peace. Outward peace with food, but inward peace with my identity and and who God was in my life.

SPEAKER_01 14:21

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 14:22

Um so that other counterfeit comforts as well, you know, including alcohol, um, and and other things, you know, around those uh those areas, alcohol and drugs for a little bit of time. But food, and this is what, you know, this is what I got from doing the work in Revelation Within was food was my first love, my first comfort to go to. And somehow it is so intimate. And I think it's in the mind real master course. Yes, it is we talk about ingesting and how we, you know, it says that we are to eat the word of God and to ingest the word of God within us. And and there was that idea that it is so food and eating, and what I put into my body and what I decide about my body is so intimate that perhaps I left God out of that too much. And if I were to invite God in, and I remember you, Christina, in particular, we were doing a little mini coaching session together, and you said, What if you ate the ice cream and he sat right there with you? And I was like, I thought, I can't do that. He can't, you know, but but and then I did. And you know, I just saw him like with his with his hand on his chin, just watching me smiling. Oh honey, isn't that good? So you really it really helped me to see uh again, why why is there such negative judgment around it? And could perhaps I invite God into that negative judgment and ask really ask what his thoughts are about that.

SPEAKER_01 16:03

Yes. Oh, I love Michelle. I love that that in your dialogue with the Lord, he calls you honey. I love that, and we have you know really watched that change in you over time in the classes of the groups and everything, and what you share, because more and more God to you is tender and compassionate and loving. And I just I can't hear enough about it. I love hearing you talk about your relationship with Jesus, it's so beautiful. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 16:39

Yes, and this was this really was pivotal because I think when I when I was searching, you know, and in in in the 12-step group, sometimes people call God the gift of desperation. And I think, you know, as he talked about with the Israelites and everything, you know, sometimes we have to be brought to our knees before we really can turn around and say, Yes, I surrender. What I am trying is not working. You know, I am desperate for you,

Inviting God Into Eating

SPEAKER_00 17:05

God. You you are my God of desperation. I'm desperate for you. And so having come, you know, into this little fellowship that you guys have created here, uh really helped me to explore that again, my my relationship with God and whether or not it was uh intimate and and whether or not I was desperate for him, you know, because that I think that is I need to be desperate for my God because he is the only one that can give me that sense of righteousness, that sense of identity that that is stable and is not going anywhere, regardless of you know where I'm at with my body size. Yes, right, good.

SPEAKER_01 17:46

Thank you, Michelle. Yes, so good, so good.

SPEAKER_02 17:50

Well, has anything else changed for you since you began your journey with us? What else has changed?

SPEAKER_00 17:57

Yes, I I think the biggest one of the biggest things, there's so many things, but one of the biggest things was uh having difficulty or um disagreements with people outside of you know our little uh our our little uh program here. It really helped what what we did, what we did at the beginning of the year, and again, I think it was in the My Renewal Mastery course, but it was like find a verse, you know, and I usually do try and have a word of the year or a verse of the year. And um Proverbs 29, 25, fear of man will prove to be a snare, but he who trusts in the Lord is kept safe. So God gave me that verse at the beginning of the year, and I've always felt that way, fear of man, what do people think? What do people think? And again, I thought I could control what people think by the way that I looked and the way that I acted, you know, and and uh uh I wrote that verse down. And wouldn't you know that God gave me the opportunity several times outside of, you know, outside of our fellowship to experience how much I relied on man's opinion of me. And there were us, there were there were several situations where someone was disappointed with me and not only just disappointed with me, but upset with me, and not only just upset with me, but sharing her upset with other people in another group I was in. And so I was devastated and I I was devastated and I was so afraid of how this was going to affect my standing in this group that I'm in. And again, I I cried out to God, you know what is true. Ugh those those my virtual

Fear Of Man And Secure Identity

SPEAKER_00 19:45

tools, what is true, God? Yes, it is true that she's upset with me. Yes, it is true that I've done everything that I can to make it right. But he asked me, if you can't make it right, will you still be okay? If it's not in your power to make it right, will you still be okay? And yeah, that's what, you know, that's what really encouraged me to continue searching out what what my identity meant to me, what God, you know, is is is the voice of my savior stronger to me, more has more weight to me, is more valuable to me than the voice of anybody fill in the blank, even my husband and my children, anybody. And so that's been this that's still, of course, it's still happening, but the change that I feel is that now when I'm in situations, I just kind of I just kind of cut my hands together and hold it up to the light and say, Is this true, God?

SPEAKER_03 20:47

What do you think about this?

SPEAKER_00 20:49

What do you think about this? Am I okay? You know, and I feel his hand on my shoulder. Yes, you're okay. Oh I've got you, you're okay, I've got you.

SPEAKER_01 20:58

Yeah, yay, amazing, Michelle. That's life life changing, just completely life-changing in so many ways. I love that. Thank you for sharing that. Um, so you mentioned what is true, you mentioned um mind renewal tools. I want to hear more about that. Um, I do too. Yeah, Heidi does too. Tell us what mind renewal looks like for you. Like, what does it look like in your real life? How has it impacted you?

SPEAKER_00 21:30

I think if if we can do it enough and do it in a sense of conversation with the Lord, that it becomes more of a habit that then becomes more of an automatic thing. So in the beginning, it was write it all down. Write down, you know. I listened to the porch chats, I I, you know, I've done the workbooks, uh, what is true, and and several of them will give a scripture and then will ask uh us to. To interpret it in our own words and ask what do we think that God is saying about that? You know, so I found that really helpful. I also found calling out my lies really helpful. What do I what do I believe? You know, and in that instance, it was it was easier to say, oh well, I used to believe that, but I don't believe that anymore, like I'm no good, or I'll never lose the weight, or there you go again, um, you know, there you made a mistake again, or whatever. And so um looking at what was underneath that, so it was you know how the it was kind of like a flow chart. So following that flow chart in the beginning was very helpful, and then ending it with scripture, you know, and and now it does feel more I love the what is true, and I've even done that my I've done that with my husband when we're we work together, and you know, something's coming up, and it's like, okay, well, what is true is that right now, driving in this car, everything is fine. The Lord is with us. We we have, you know, we have nothing to worry about. Uh, he's watching over us, he has a plan for us, and then personally for

Mind Renewal Tools In Real Life

SPEAKER_00 23:10

myself, making it making it personal and intimate, Lord, is this true? Is this true? What do you say about this? You know, and so I really I like the idea of conversation, you know, having that conversation with him and um and just putting it into my daily life that way.

SPEAKER_01 23:31

Yes, beautiful.

SPEAKER_02 23:32

Thank you, Michelle. Have you found peace with food eating in your body on this journey? Have you?

SPEAKER_00 23:41

Tell us about it some more. Absolutely, yes. And did it look like I thought you were gonna look, you know, yeah, woo, celebrate, transforming, talk about transforming, yes, and did it did did my body size change much over the last year and a half? No. Would I have thought that did I think that the two needed to be tied together that my body size would change, i.e. get smaller, and b, I would have peace with food? Yes, I thought the two were gonna, you know, go together. And and right, but what I discovered was that that didn't matter. That didn't matter to God. You know, it it didn't amazing that's not the and and here's here's what I would like other women to know, and what I feel like God really brought home to me is that he, you know, man looks at the outward appearance, but God looks at the heart, that he is not looking at my outward appearance, and my value is not tied to the size of my genes. And you know, I feel kind of uh, you know, I feel kind of vain saying that, but that it it used to really just wrench my heart when I thought, oh my gosh, I'm not where I'm supposed to be, or or I've done it again, or whatever. None of those words were words from the Lord, not one of them. Amen. And figuring out the difference between, okay, restriction. I know how to restrict myself and feel righteous in my eating and doing all the right things. And if I decide that that's not working for me and I want to do, I want to do intuitive eating and I want to do peaceful eating, I would completely carry that right over into permission and and indulgence and gluttony. And and this God has shown me, and this program has shown me that there is a balance in the middle, you know, and the balance in the middle is listening, asking for help, listening for guidance, and then following that guidance. Yes, right?

SPEAKER_01 25:54

Oh, yeah, there's that step too, following it.

SPEAKER_00 26:00

Yeah, yes, it's definitely impacting me. It definitely is is uh, you know, do do I still worry here and there? You just did a little short series on uh summertime, you know. So here we are at the end of summer, but at the beginning of summer, it was like, uh, oh no, it's swimsuit season, you know, and what's gonna happen there? And just just being able, again, to ask those questions and have those practical tools. Uh and to uh I'll tell you, the best thing to get you out of yourself is to get involved in somebody else. And to sit at a beach and ask somebody else questions, you know, and to be interested in what's happening in somebody else's life instead of constantly worried about how I look or how people are perceiving me.

SPEAKER_02 26:42

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 26:44

Well, and I just have to tell our listeners that Michelle is like all smiles in front of us, and she is glowing and absolutely radiant as she talks about all of this. And Heidi and I are just all smiles, we can't stop smiling. And my cheeks

Peace Without A Smaller Body

SPEAKER_01 27:00

are we're like, we can't stop smiling. I know it's so good. How has this piece impacted other areas of your life, Michelle? Can you give us some examples?

SPEAKER_00 27:13

Yes, it in the example, you know, with uh with a friend in another program and being able to um give give that over to God. Um, so you know, so that's outside of you know this little um sanctuary that you two have created, that God has created with you, has partnered with you to create. Um, as I said, and and I work with my husband, and so um bringing that bringing God into those situations. For instance, just this week, you know, he's he's a craftsman, and so uh he has been a craftsman for over 45 years. So he and I working together is you know, we've been doing it for about 10 years, full time, and I still need to learn things. And you know, I don't want to be told what to do a lot of the times, especially by my husband, you know, it's very hard to separate work and relationship. And so being able to take that pause and take a breath and just I kind of I kind of look over my shoulder symbolically and I say, God, are you with me? Are you with me, Lord? And and knowing that he's with me, and that this taking instruction, you know, is not a condemnation. There is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. That that's such a beautiful verse to keep in mind. Uh, and then also I would say with my son, I have two grown children, uh, and one of them, his kids are already grown and out of high school, and the other one, her kids are, you know, two, two and a half and under, just two. My joy! Completely letting these lessons flow into those areas too, being patient and kind with the kids, watching my daughter do something that maybe I could I could step in there and I could say, Hey, you know, you're going to do it, or I could pray for her and I could let God show her how it is that she should do things. And so that to me, that's the most beautiful thing is not, I think the my anxiety level has gone down about doing everything right, and that hyper-vigilance that I used to really live in, a lot of hyper-vigilance. If I just manage every little thing, right, I will have you know peace and safety. Yeah, and you know, I know my only safety, my only safety is in the Lord. You know, He is my peace, He is the peace that passes understanding, and and He's everywhere, he's just not in Revelation within, he's everywhere. But uh, you guys really helped me to see that and to carry it through.

SPEAKER_02 29:49

Awesome, beautiful, beautiful, wow, awesome, awesome. Oh, wow, this has been fun. And so if if you wanted to be sure that whoever's listening to this podcast could walk away with one thing that they could hear from you today, now's your chance. What would that be?

SPEAKER_00 30:12

Oh, what would that be? That would be that you are loved by God. Oh, not because of anything you're doing in this moment, not because of anything you have done or you will do. You are loved by God because He created you and because He Jesus Christ died for your sins. Because He one of the things He showed me recently was not only did He take on the sins that I

Peace That Changes Relationships

SPEAKER_00 30:40

committed just by being a fallen human being, but He uh carried my shame, my pain, the things He carried the things that were done to me as well. He said, Let me take those, let me take those so you can walk free. I've already got them. You know, what would you do if you knew that those things were lifted off of you by the grace of God? What would you do? And uh, you know, my answer to that is be free, be joyous, be so incredibly grateful that you know, I don't want to take a single thing for granted that God is showing me and giving me. And He calls us, He calls us near. So, okay, I'm gonna draw near. You know, I'm gonna draw near and I'm gonna learn what I can. And uh again, everything that I've got my I keep looking, you people can't see that, but I keep looking over here at my stack of of uh of teachings and and workbooks, and there's just so much rich content, and I will never know, I will never know the depth of God's love for me until I see Him face to face. Yeah, you know, but I can keep trying that I can keep trying that I can strive for that we can strive for. So know that you are loved and know that and know that you are loved. Oh, thank you, Michelle.

SPEAKER_02 32:06

Oh, I just want to give you a great big hug. Thank you so much for taking the time out of your busy life uh to to share with us and with our listeners.

SPEAKER_00 32:25

Yes, and I will see you all in the in our little community.

SPEAKER_01 32:30

Yeah, we'll see what God's got. Absolutely. Thank you, thank you. We are so glad that you have been here with us today. So glad all of you who are listening, and also Michelle. And we would love to invite you to join us for our next podcast episode of Revelation within the first time.