Welcome And Today’s Tender Topic

SPEAKER_01 0:01

Hi, and welcome to our podcast, Revelation Within on the Go. I am Heidi Filesma Epherson, one of your hosts, and the owner of the Revelation Within Ministry.

SPEAKER_00 0:14

And I'm Christina Motley, your other host, also a Revelation Within coach, and Heidi's partner in all things Revelation Within. And we are so happy to invite you to join us for this episode of Revelation Within.

unknown 0:38

Yay!

SPEAKER_00 0:39

Glad you're here. Come on in. What are we talking about today? Well, today we're gonna talk about kind of a tender again. We're talking about another tender sentence. Another one. We're kind of hitting them all. Yep. What happens when the place where we hope to find grace becomes a place where we feel watched or ashamed about food in our bodies?

SPEAKER_01 1:04

Oh, pick me, pick me. Um Heidi, go for it. No,

Weight Loss Talk And Quiet Judgments

SPEAKER_01 1:10

it's so interesting to me how church, um, because I think that's what you're talking about, right? Yes, we're talking about church. Yeah. Well, I've noticed people are dropping weight like crazy. Yes, they are. And I remember there was this one guy, and Michael, my husband, said to him, Hey, you you're looking like you're losing some weight. And he goes, Yeah, but I'm doing it with the shot. My wife is doing it the way you're supposed to do it. I was so surprised. First of all, because that was kind of personal. Um, and secondly, because that's kind of let's set up a we them thing. It's yeah, it's a little on the judgy side.

SPEAKER_00 1:52

Judgy, judgmental for sure. Yeah, yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:55

But I've noticed I even think that way too. It's like, wow, she's lost a lot of weight. I wonder if she's using the shot. Like, it's not as good as any other way. Yeah, as if anybody needs to care what I think. I'm like, what? What is my problem? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:13

We are in a very unique time in our world, aren't we? Where it's like people are what we call shape shifting a lot. We're seeing it all over the place. And I think that, you know, a lot of people are thinking what you just shared, Heidi, like, what's going on? What's happening with that person? Is something bad? Is something or do they have cancer or something? You know, I mean, because yeah. Honestly, that was a big thing for me. Being diagnosed with cancer um a year ago, I thought the last thing in the world that I want to do is look different so that a lot of people ask questions. That that was on my mind. I was like, I do not want that kind of attention.

SPEAKER_01 3:01

Yeah, definitely.

SPEAKER_00 3:02

For sure.

SPEAKER_01 3:03

Well, and just so y'all know, we we love the church, the people of God, we love gathering with his people, we love opening his word, we love praying together, we love worshiping the Lord together, sharing a meal. Yes, and because those things matter so much, it really can hurt deeply when a comment made in that setting stays with us for years. Oh my gosh, some of my deepest wounds have been at church. I hate to admit that because you'd think that it, yeah. Anyway, it whether it's Bible studies or even on Sunday morning um before church even starts. Um, yeah.

unknown 3:48

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 3:49

I'm so sorry, Heidi. I'm so sorry that happened to you. Um, I think it's something that happens to all of us because the church is full of a bunch of humans, you know, and so it's not like we're gonna walk in and have all these perfect humans, including ourselves. Right. The other thing I just want to say really quick is that there's nothing at all wrong with any medical choice that you choose. We don't want to, you know, Heidi and I are not at all in a place of judging anyone for taking the shot or anything else for that matter.

SPEAKER_01 4:24

So I'm gonna say it because I have I've told little groups of people, but I have tried the shot.

SPEAKER_00 4:33

Yes, say it. Tell us about it.

SPEAKER_01 4:36

Yeah, I did. The very first time I tried it, I was horribly sick, throw up sick. I felt morning sick. But the reason I tried it was also because ever since I started taking antibiotics in 2014, my body has steadily gained weight every year. No matter what I've done, no matter what I've done, I've continued to grow. I don't mean spiritually. Anyway, and and it's scary. It's scary because you know how many things, um, health conditions and can and concerns can be triggered by an ever-growing girth. And it's not, I mean, I'm laughing right now, but it's been a heartache, to be honest with you. So I tried that, it clearly didn't work, and I finally gave up on it after thinking, well, this'll work really fast if I just keep throwing up. Uh yeah. And then um, sometime later, I tried another, a more brand name one, and it worked fine, except I had um tachycardia, and that's scary. And I kept denying, yeah, and I kept denying that that was why. And I just knew that wasn't God's way uh for me. And given how scary it was to have my heart racing, even though I wasn't doing anything, um, I I looked into it and and realized that this is one of the symptoms of that particular medication. Yeah, the weight, uh, you know, it wasn't worth it. So I knew God had something else in mind for me to get healthy and be healthy and stay healthy and all of that. And he did indeed. But anyway, I just wanted to like level the playing field. I'm not saying anybody should try it or anybody shouldn't. Yes, but from my perspective, the decision was much easier to make, knowing that God wouldn't lead me into something potentially scary for my health. So definitely uh we nipped it in the bud.

SPEAKER_00 6:47

Yes, and you know, I know a lot of people who have been really helped by those shots and others who have quit for different reasons. Um, it's all individually up to you and your medical team, of course. Right. So we just yeah, we just want you to know. But Heidi, thank you for sharing that. Sure appreciate it. Sure.

SPEAKER_01 7:06

And I haven't shared it before because it just didn't feel like the right time, but I have definitely mentioned it to enough people by now that I can do that here. Um, and and it's it's a done

Why Church Comments Cut Deep

SPEAKER_01 7:19

deal. I haven't done it since those two things, but um anyway, we want to talk today though about not we've got episodes on the GLP one shot and other medical options for what you're struggling with, but we want to talk today about something that can be so destructive and and and how to handle it, and that is when people choose to stand in judgment of us at church specifically.

SPEAKER_00 7:51

Yeah. Um, sometimes the person who made the hurtful comment had no idea that it would hurt. Um, that happens sometimes, of course.

SPEAKER_01 8:01

And I'm sitting here rolling my eyes because how could they not? But you're right, Christina. Christina brings the voice of compassion, um, but I'm like, oh my gosh, really? Somebody needs to draw them a diagram then.

SPEAKER_00 8:14

Right. No, it's true. I mean, there are times when people are so completely clueless, you know, they just don't, they just don't know. I'll give you an example. Okay, so I have a friend and I I love her dearly. I've known her for quite a while, and she um makes a regular practice out of going up to people and commenting on the way they look. And in her mind, she's being encouraging and loving and helpful and kind of like a cheerleader, like, oh, I'm cheering them on. Um, so an example would be someone who she maybe hasn't seen for years, and maybe a church, maybe somewhere else, and she runs into this person and says, Oh my goodness, you look so different. You look amazing. How much weight have you lost? And what are you doing to lose weight? And she will do this, and she'll do it in a way that she is completely oblivious to that. This might be hurtful in some way. Um, and so it was a few months ago, and we were talking, and she was sharing an example of this, that this had happened, and that she was feeling really excited about this person, and that she really wanted to be an encouragement to them, and this is what she said. And so she was telling me the whole story, and I thought, you know what, I'm gonna gently and lovingly be honest with this friend of mine. Um, so I said, you know, do you know what I do? And you know, what do I do all day long? I coach people who have issues with food and eating and body image, and bel, you know, I coach and work for a ministry that where we talk about that a lot and we talk about shame and we talk about all kinds of things. So I I just want to share something with you that I've heard from many, many women and I've experienced myself. She's like, okay, okay. And I think she was expecting me to kind of compliment her for gushing over these people and trying to encourage them. So I said, when when someone does that, when someone comes up to you, um, or say me, you know, anybody, and talks very specifically about their body, their shape, their size, the changes that they've seen in them, it can cause all kinds of hurtful emotions in the person who's listening. For example, well, if this is how you see me now, how did you see me before? What were your thoughts about my body and my size and my shape before I lost all the weight? Um, that's that's a huge one that many of us have felt. Or you might be you might be speaking to a person who is ill. You might be talking to someone who has a health crisis going on that you have no idea about whether they're larger or smaller than they were before. And so the other in the other person's mind, they're feeling vulnerable, they're feeling unsafe, they're feeling called out in some ways, they're feeling um insecure. And many times they won't know what to say back. Oh, I just thought of another example would be if somebody had really, you know, their shape had become smaller because of some reason, you they might be thinking, what is she gonna think of me if this weight ever comes back? And those are very, very painful, very painful thoughts. Um for many of us can relate to this. So again, steer away. And anyone who's listening today, that that is personal. If you if you and this person are having a personal conversation, whatever, that might be different. But for you just to walk up to somebody and start talking about their body, that is not okay. Please don't do that. Please don't do that. You know, if you feel like you want to compliment them, compliment them on their eyes or their smile, or you know, the way that they are encouraging to you, or something like that that has nothing to do with their bodies. It's just a really difficult subject for many of us, maybe most of us, no matter what size you are, no matter what is happening with you. And again, there might be something going on that you have no idea about. So yeah, just don't even go there. I hope that helps somebody out there.

SPEAKER_01 12:58

Yeah, and it's it's likely that what we wish people would say to us is often what we say to others. Yes, some of us, you know, feel that way, but we need to recognize one size does not fit all. The we're not cookie cutter Christians or people at all. Um, and it can be very, very hurtful. Um, and I'm sure, I mean, it's it's we don't mean it that way, of course.

SPEAKER_00 13:28

Yes, my friend does not mean it that way. She doesn't. But um, yeah, I think that happens with a lot of us. Um, for me, going into cancer treatment, I found myself uh puffing up because of steroids. I got very puffy, and my face in particular, they call it chemo face. And I looked very different, and that was hard for me because I looked like I was gaining weight, like in my face and my body. I was puffy because of steroids and I hated it. I didn't like that. Um, but no, I mean, thankfully, nobody came up to me and said, What's going on with you? And that didn't happen. It could have, though. It could have. Somebody could have, uh, but they didn't. And I appreciate that. But again, what's going on with someone's body that's very personal? That is very personal, and we want to stay clear of those things. So often we don't know that we're hurting somebody. The words come out and they seem, they seem like, yeah, this is a compliment. Um, sometimes maybe they were repeating something they had heard all their lives. But you know what? The impact is still real, and I'm gonna call you on it in case you're one of those people, um, which, you know, I'm I'm sure I've done the same thing without realizing it in the past. But we learn and then we do better, right? Today we want to make room for that pain, and we want to bring the messages we've absorbed into the light of God's truth. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 15:10

Okay, so let's start with what is really a familiar church setting.

Potlucks And Moralizing Food

SPEAKER_01 15:15

Um, a church potluck. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe you're walking through the line, deciding what you'd like to enjoy, and someone looks at your plate. Maybe you're the someone who's looking at somebody else's plate, yeah, and says, Oh, I wish I could get away with eating that. Or I would never lose an ounce if I ate that way. Yes. Or you reach for a dessert and hear, we'll all have to repent after this. Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_00 15:52

Oh, I know, right? Yeah. You know, people may laugh, but you go back to your seat wondering whether everyone noticed what you took. Many times I have thought that. Is my plate too full? You know, I'm embarrassed that I took so much, or I only took two things because I know I'm gonna go home and eat a ton later in private. You know, we feel these um thoughts of of shame and embarrassment. The meal was meant to be a time of welcome and fellowship, and now I'm just feeling exposed and vulnerable. Oh my goodness. How many of you out there have ever felt that way? Raising the hand.

SPEAKER_01 16:36

Definitely. Sometimes the comment might not even be directed at you. You might overhear someone describing food as sinful or say they were bad for eating lunch. You may find yourself taking that language with you, maybe home, and applying it to yourself. Well, am I bad for eating this? And and and maybe you aren't even thinking about it. That's just it. It comes in subtly and then it undermines the truth so very often.

SPEAKER_00 17:08

Yeah, it really does. Let's pause right there. Um, and let's kind of talk about what is true. Food can be enjoyed with gratitude. Food is a gift, it's a gift from God. All the different varieties, flavors, textures. God made food for us to enjoy. Also, people can have different needs, different preferences and convictions about what they eat. Maybe it's uh from their their doctor, maybe it has to do with a medical condition. A plate cannot tell us the condition of someone's heart.

SPEAKER_01 17:48

Not at all. Um, I there's a chapter in the Bible, Romans chapter 14, that has been super helpful to me in how to kind of think this through. It's been so meaningful. In it, of course, Paul is not addressing modern-day G-O-P-1s or diets or diet foods or keto or whatever. He's addressing the differences among believers about food and what they use it for, what maybe there's holidays or observances that they make. And he reminds them that each person belongs to the Lord and that they need to stand or fall in front of their own master. You might even want to read that chapter in its context, Romans chapter 14. But surely it should make us consider, you know, wait a minute, are we, am I, I'll say that, am I judging my sister by what I see her eating or not eating? The fact that she's not partaking in certain foods, am I quick to judge?

SPEAKER_00 18:55

Mm-hmm. It might also make us more thoughtful about what we say around a shared table. We can talk about how delicious something is without assigning moral value to ourselves or anyone else for eating it.

SPEAKER_01 19:12

Yeah, or for abstaining from it.

SPEAKER_00 19:14

Right, exactly.

Fasting Pressure And Private Health

SPEAKER_01 19:16

Um of us come from traditions that uh incorporate fasting as one of the spiritual disciplines for drawing closer to God. Certainly there's biblical precedence for that. And to be honest with you, this can be especially complicated because while fasting is a real spiritual practice, and Jesus speaks about it, some and some people find a meaningful way to turn their attention toward God, then there are others of us who have used it in other ways.

SPEAKER_00 19:54

So a meaningful practice can become painful when someone else treats participation as a measure of devotion. So perhaps a church announces a fast and you'll hear, if you're serious about seeking God, you will join us. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Perhaps someone asks, well, why aren't why aren't you fasting? And you feel as though an honest answer would require, you know, talking about private things about your health or your history with food and eating and your body. Um those are those are private things. Yeah, that can be really difficult.

SPEAKER_01 20:32

We don't owe anybody any kind of account of our body or our choices. A person may need to approach fasting differently or even refrain from it. And that's decision is deserves prayerful care. Um, it can be made with God, and when appropriate, you might even involve your healthcare professional. But no one looking at you from the outside has enough information to judge your faithfulness or your weakness or whatever it might be. Uh, and so remind yourself of the truth often about this, that each person is going to answer to Jesus for what they have chosen.

SPEAKER_00 21:15

So, and Jesus' teaching about fasting in Matthew 6 actually cautions against making a big thing of it, a big display of it, you know. Fasting isn't meant to become a performance by which we prove ourselves to other people. Fasting is actually a very intimate and private affair and should be treated that way.

SPEAKER_01 21:37

Seeking God is never limited to just one practice, anyway. So if somebody's putting pressure on you to join the church fast or whatever, um, you know, invite God into your decision about that. And peer pressure is peer pressure no matter where it shows up. We can pray, we can worship, we can meditate on scripture, serve somebody. Sit quietly and practice listening prayer with the Lord or share what we have with others. If fasting has kind of gotten all tangled up with fear or shame for you, that's something you can bring, honestly, to God.

SPEAKER_00 22:15

Yes. Yes.

“Body Is A Temple” Without Shame

SPEAKER_00 22:17

So here's another phrase that we often hear in church, and I heard it just a few weeks ago. Um, and it can be used in a way that is difficult or hurtful. Your body is a temple. So that phrase comes from scripture. Absolutely, it's there. So it deserves more than, you know, either a quick dismissal or a quick use to correct someone else.

SPEAKER_01 22:42

Oh my goodness. And I know I have used this inappropriately in my history, hopefully ancient history. Um, yeah, in First Corinthians chapter six, Paul is speaking about belonging to God and honoring him with our bodies, you know, actually glorifying God with our bodies. He's not handing us a way to sort people into good temples and bad temples based on appearance. And when the phrase is aimed at someone's size or their plate, we need to ask whether it reflects what Paul is addressing. You know, I don't want to ever um use my body as a temple as a form of beating myself or another person up, or as a way to shame myself or shame another person. No, no, no, that's that's misusing that scripture.

SPEAKER_00 23:37

You know, you might have heard it in a sermon, uh, like I did, or from a friend, or inside your own thoughts, really. Um, something like this if you really honored God, your body would look different. Oh gosh, that's just like a knife to the heart. That sentence, I mean, it it kind of sounds spiritual because it mentions God. But does it speak truth about what he sees? Is this the way God sees us? Is this what it says in the Word? This is how God sees us. Does it draw you toward him or does it send you into hiding? Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_01 24:16

And really, this is related to something that we call it revelation within. Uh, it's really practical. It's catching a targeted lie. Uh, a painful remark can pass by us in seconds, while the thought that it leaves behind keeps speaking to us for a long time. If we can identify that thought, we can bring it before God. And many of us have targeted lies uh and little tea truths. We also call them little tea truths, things that maybe were true in the past, or maybe they weren't true at all, but we have believed that they are. We hear a lot of these in church because it's got all the language, all the Bible verses attached to it. Oh my goodness. But we want to recognize when something is being used as if it's God's voice to us, but it's actually not. We need to walk with discernment here and invite God to show us.

SPEAKER_00 25:18

So here's a few possibilities. Maybe the thought is everyone at church is evaluating me, or I need to earn my place at this table. Oh dear. Or God is disappointed in me because of what I ate. For someone else, it may be I can't be a mature Christian unless I fast the way other people do.

SPEAKER_01 25:41

Notice really how specific those are. I mean, really, I feel bad tells us something important, but it doesn't yet tell us what we've come to believe. And as we always say at Revelation Within, what we think about is going to impact what we believe, and what we believe will impact what we do, our actions. So we can gently ask what did that moment seem to say about me, about God, or about whether I belong in some way.

SPEAKER_00 26:15

Well, and we don't have to shame ourselves for having believed.

SPEAKER_01 26:20

No, no, of course not.

SPEAKER_00 26:21

No, we're simply noticing what needs the light of truth.

SPEAKER_01 26:27

Suppose I hear you need to earn your place at this table, and that really takes me back to my childhood more than anything. I can bring that thought to to Jesus with Romans 8:1. There is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. My welcome in Christ, your welcome in Christ is not determined by what we put on a potluck plate. I'm sorry, but it's not.

SPEAKER_00 26:53

It's not. If the thought is, God can't be pleased with me unless I fast, I can remember that he knows me fully. I can seek him sincerely and ask what obedience looks like in my circumstances. I don't need to copy somebody else's practice to be close to him or somebody else's patterns or thoughts or anything.

SPEAKER_01 27:17

Right.

SPEAKER_00 27:18

I need to go to him and ask him if I'm struggling with it.

SPEAKER_01 27:23

And here's one that I have at times years ago, again, a lot of these are God has just shown me so much in the past 10, 15, maybe even 20 years. But if the thought you're struggling with is that my body's appearance reveals my spiritual condition. Okay, that's a lie. Yes. I can remember what God said to Samuel when Samuel was sent to anoint a king. People look at the outward appearance, God said, but the Lord looks at the heart. Appearance is such a poor measure of what's happening between a person and God. It really is.

SPEAKER_00 28:05

It really is. There may be a true conviction that we need to hear from the Lord at times. We're not saying that there isn't. You know, God is always teaching us lovingly and convicting us. The Holy Spirit is. We're not saying that every uncomfortable feeling should be set aside, right? But conviction invites us to come toward God and respond to Him. Shame does the opposite. Shame tells us to hide, declares our identity ruined, and leaves us feeling hopeless.

SPEAKER_01 28:39

And that really is a super big difference. Yeah. We can ask, Lord, is there anything you're inviting me to see here? Oh, if we could just get into that mode of having a conversation with God throughout our day, I think a lot of things that we take offense or are hurt by or are diminished in some way by would be solved. We need to then listen, of course, without adding accusations that he hasn't spoken. And he's not going to speak any. I really don't believe he's going to accuse us. That's the accuser's job. And we know that as our enemy for sure.

What To Say And How To Prepare

SPEAKER_00 29:16

What if somebody says something hurtful again? It might help to have something ready to say.

SPEAKER_01 29:22

Yeah, that's a good idea.

SPEAKER_00 29:24

You know, you could say, I'd rather not talk about my food choices, or I'm comfortable with my choice. Thank you. If it feels right, you could say, you know, comments about what's on my plate are hard for me. Could we talk about something else?

SPEAKER_01 29:43

Yeah. Oh my goodness. You can also decide that really that moment doesn't even call for a response. You can tend to your own heart first, and then later perhaps you could talk to the person if it's worth it to you, or maybe with a trusted leader, especially if it's a pattern that might affect others too. You know, this is something when I was attending women's Bible study in the evenings, um, it seemed like it was a common um thread in the conversations before and after the study would start. And it just seemed like everybody was talking about what plan they were on or how much they had lost or what wasn't working or whatever. And I couldn't, I it just it made me crazy. I couldn't stand it.

SPEAKER_00 30:29

Right. Well, and if the hurt came through teaching or from someone with authority, please know. I mean, you're allowed to take that seriously. You are. You can examine what was said, read the passage in context, ask questions, and seek the perspective of someone wise and trustworthy. You don't have to carry confusion alone.

SPEAKER_01 30:53

Absolutely. I, you know, I just wish that our, well, I would love for our church tables to be places where people can receive hospitality and where we can enjoy a meal, hear someone's story, maybe share prayer requests and prayer answers and recognize a sister in Christ rather than evaluate what she's eating. We don't want to just sit there and inspect one another's plates and bodies. No, no, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_00 31:20

No way. Well, actually, we can help create that kind of space. That's true. You know, we can actually prepare before we even go and be ready for it and have sentences ready that we can share. We can stop making jokes about being bad for eating this or eating that or um any kind of judgment calls like that. We can refrain from commenting on someone else's food or body. Please don't do that. We can totally be an example by not doing that. We can ask how a person is doing and listen to the answer.

SPEAKER_01 32:00

And when we're the ones who have been hurt, we can renew our minds with what God actually says. Nobody else has the right to define us or to question our I don't know, our integrity or our worth or value. Maybe before you even go to one of these sorts of things, uh Bible study, it might just be a Bible study, or it could be uh an actual church potluck. Um we could write a truth card for that specific thing and pray through a passage right beforehand and and speak one honest sentence to the Lord and help him to like just put it on our hearts. Um, and even we can speak to him while we're in that setting. Lord, that was a comment that made me feel unwelcome. Remind me that I belong to you and you've invited me to be here, and that's the most important truth.

SPEAKER_00 32:54

I was talking to someone just yesterday who was writing a victory list of all the different things that have been happening with her food, eating, body, all the things that have been lining up with how God sees things. And she said for the first time in years, um, she went to a Bible study and had some dessert. First time in years. Yeah, because she had felt so judged before, whether she was being judged or not. I don't know. She doesn't really know, nobody said anything, but she was feeling so much shame over reaching for dessert. And yesterday, whatever, whenever day that she went to this, she felt the freedom to do that. And it was a huge victory for her to have that dessert with everyone else. I was so excited for her. So excited. What it what a huge victory.

Weekly Invitation Prayer And Closing

SPEAKER_00 33:48

So here's an invitation for this week. Think of a message about food or your body that you've heard in a church setting. What did it lead you to believe? And then ask, where can I look in scripture to hear God more clearly? You can take your time with those questions.

SPEAKER_01 34:09

Of course. Oh Lord Jesus, thank you so much for welcoming us to come to you. You know the words that have wounded us, you know the looks on people's faces that have impacted us. Um, you know, a lot of people they may mean well, but it doesn't land well. Help us to recognize lies that we've carried and and to bring them to you, into your light. Give us wisdom when we read your word, Lord. Give us courage to seek help when we need it. And then, Lord, I pray for gentleness in the way we speak to one another. Make our shared tables, even when it's just dessert after Bible study or whatever, places of hospitality and grace, abundant grace. Thank you, Lord. Amen.

SPEAKER_00 35:03

So we just want to end with this. You belong to the Lord. When a message leaves you ashamed or confused, you can bring that very message to God and ask, what is true? So simple, so simple. Lord, what is true? Is this what you agree with? Is this how you see me? Was that a true statement? Talk to him about it. It will change a lot of things in your mind. We're so we're so glad you've been here today. And we would love to invite you to our next episode of Revelation Within. See you next time. Bye bye.